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[09:21:29] piranha is now There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies
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[10:30:29] XIT: господа, приветствую, хотелось бы услышать Вше мнение, начинаю изучать python, до этого программированием не занимался, сейчас стоит вопрос с чего начать. А именно 2,6 или 3,0, на сколько я понял синтаксис разнится, а более глубоко понять отличия пока не могу в силу малого количества знаний.

И еще вопрос, есть ли ipython для 3-й версии? Спасибо.
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[10:31:38] Большой Лис: XIT, ты пока не хочешь 3-ю версию
[10:34:36] XIT: напротив, настроен на изучение 3-й, но хотелось бы разобраться, в чем фундаментальные, если так можно выразится, отличия
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[10:35:08] _lorien: XIT, учи 2.6 пока
[10:35:19] _lorien: все его юзают щас ) вернее много людей ещё 2.5 юзает, думаю
[10:36:02] Большой Лис: я думаю много ещё и 2.4 :)
[10:36:09] _lorien: :D
[10:36:13] Большой Лис: а в RHEL/CentOS так вообще 2.3
[10:36:15] XIT: это не аргумент, сами понимаете, кто чем владеет тот и использует
[10:36:32] Большой Лис: XIT, в дистрах всех 2.5/2.6
[10:36:39] _lorien: XIT, ну, потом не говори, что тебя не предупреждали )
[10:36:57] XIT: тогда принципиальной разницы, выходит, нет.....в дистрах нет, можно установить...
[10:37:15] Большой Лис: XIT, точно тебе говорю, ты этого не хочешь
[10:37:21] XIT: )
[10:37:23] Большой Лис: просто не осознаёшь что не хочешь ;)
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[10:38:03] XIT: и на том спасибо, будем разбираться )
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[10:40:53] tilarids: XIT, юзай 2.6. Не такие уж там и страшные различия с 3.0
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[10:49:16] mishok13: есть одно страшное различие
[10:49:42] mishok13: большинство сторонних либ до сих пор поддерживают только 2.x
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[10:51:32] tilarids: mishok13, ну, это различие в пользу 2.6, а не в пользу 3.0. Я ж говорю, что не так и много нужно нового будет выучить, чтобы с 2.6 пересесть на 3.0, когда понадобится
[10:51:58] mishok13: ну так, я никому и не советую 3.0 пользоваться
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[12:54:33] MAVr: цискари есть?
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[12:54:58] MAVr: как в ДХСП добавить 67 опцию?
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[13:47:19] gigimon_: jabbim ниче так клиент
[13:47:51] lievil: о
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[13:48:03] gigimon_: на питоне с твистедом
[13:48:06] lievil: может тут кто подскажет, подключал ли кто к ejabberd pyMSNt
[13:48:08] nmk: gigimon на сайте на картинке там бомбус
[13:48:28] gigimon_: на каком сайте?
[13:48:45] nmk: jabbim.com
[13:49:25] gigimon_: ну я его поставил щас)
[13:49:30] gigimon_: на скриншоты и не смотрел
[13:50:09] _lorien: чем он круче gajim?
[13:50:36] gigimon_: тем, что gajim у меня крашится)
[13:50:38] mishok13: twisted? :)
[13:50:39] gigimon_: незнаю почему
[13:50:45] gigimon_: угу
[13:50:48] gigimon_: в зависимостях
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[13:51:44] gigimon_: TypeError: Error when calling the metaclass bases
__gsignals__ attribute not a dict!
вот такое гаджим гвоорит
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[13:54:28] _lorien: А на моём гавноцелереное гажим щас тормозит, запарил уже конкретно. А что делать - привык (
[13:54:43] _lorien: Думал psyco подключить, а потом прочитал в ченжлоге, что он и так psyco юзает
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[13:55:01] _lorien: гавноцелероное = гавноcelerone
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[13:57:59] gigimon: такс
[13:58:23] gigimon: буду юзать jabbim этот, а то psi стремный, гаджим крашится, а в кутиме ваще убогий жаббер конфы
[13:59:12] Optik: 57 метров не пойми чего, там похоже что-тто вроде дропбокса еще встроено
[13:59:24] Optik: ткаббер наше все
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[14:00:26] gigimon: он страшный)
[14:00:50] Optik: для гурманов есть еще мкаббер)
[14:01:45] gigimon: )
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[14:03:28] mishok13: троллиё, ничего не знающее про питон троллит жабофилов и нетоебов
[14:03:37] mishok13: http://www.developers.org.ua/forum/topic/697
[14:04:41] (ZioN,) is now online
[14:04:50] (ZioN,) is now online
[14:04:55] mishok13: жесть-то какая
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[14:08:46] Муркт: mishok13: читаю первую страницу
[14:08:52] Муркт: Иван Петриченко уже доставляет
[14:09:05] Мозгошредер: │06-22 14:00 <== <Optik> для гурманов есть еще мкаббер)
[14:09:08] Мозгошредер: version
[14:09:58] Мозгошредер: mcabber 0.99 . Зато не тормозит :)
[14:10:08] cheshirecat is now away
[14:10:25] mishok13: """Простота и элегантность появились в Java EE5"""
[14:11:07] Portnov is now away
[14:11:40] Муркт: там ещё есть
[14:12:06] tilarids is now away
[14:12:30] zulorflare is now online
[14:12:35] Муркт: про отсутствие превосходства .net над джавой, про переписывание кода и потерю денег из-за того, что питон3 ломает обратную совместимость, и т.д.
[14:12:49] Typhon: "Трололо луговский-стайл детектед. Блджад, это же кем надо быть, что бы на все это вестись, дети?" единственная мысль
[14:12:58] Typhon: дельная, по-моему
[14:13:31] Муркт: Typhon: ты дальше продвинулся
[14:13:35] Муркт: по треду
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[14:32:03] Муркт: mishok13: там под конец пришёл junior_dev и всё испортил =)
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[14:37:27] Optik: а красиво испортил, без шансов анонимусам
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[14:53:39] red-agent is now No medication can kill the truth
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[14:59:40] red-agent is now No medication can kill the truth
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[15:03:08] Optik is now Я в сети с 16:02
[15:03:09] Optik is now Я в сети с 16:02
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[15:15:25] piranha is now There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies
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[15:22:52] pit is now ?
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[15:24:01] pit: Мозгошредер: ты еще qip редложить не забудь :)))))
[15:24:13] tilarids is now offline
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[15:45:05] MAVr is now Да, я тут
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[15:46:38] Portnov is now online
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[15:47:05] piranha is now offline
[15:47:06] piranha is now There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies
[15:47:28] a1fred is now xa
[15:47:40] lievil is now xa
[15:47:59] a1fred is now xa
[15:48:00] cheshirecat is now online
[15:48:29] a1fred is now xa
[15:48:34] rahs: привет всем
[15:48:59] a1fred is now xa
[15:49:06] lievil is now online
[15:49:30] a1fred is now xa
[15:49:57] bergamot is now xa
[15:50:00] a1fred is now xa
[15:50:06] rahs: джанговский ОРМ умеет что-то типа
select sum(case when r <= 1 then 1 else 0 end) as Count_r from... ?
[15:50:30] a1fred is now xa
[15:51:01] a1fred is now xa
[15:51:17] piranha: может в эктра можно такое запихать?
[15:51:26] piranha: не уверен так сходу, посмотри туда
[15:51:31] a1fred is now xa
[15:51:39] piranha: смотря насколько у тебя сложный реальный запрос ;)
[15:51:49] rahs: точно, экстра ведь еще есть...
[15:51:56] rahs: piranha, сложный
[15:52:01] a1fred is now xa
[15:52:07] rahs: там таких условий 4
[15:52:18] piranha: rahs: ну... посмотри, может и получится щастье
[15:52:20] Effgen is now offline
[15:52:27] piranha: я ж так понимаю, ты его как-то агрегируешь?
[15:52:31] a1fred is now xa
[15:52:38] piranha: тогда надо 1.1 юзать...
[15:52:48] rahs: с утра 1.1 и есть
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[16:11:05] XIT is now dnd
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[16:11:28] pit is now ?
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[16:16:05] XIT is now dnd
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[16:18:20] a1fred is now xa
[16:18:39] rahs: засада :) если поле из extra не указывать в values_list, джанга его игнорирует. а если указть, пихает в группировку
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[16:22:29] piranha is now There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies
[16:22:31] gigimon: подскажите, а ModelForm можно заюзать для профиля юзера?

[16:22:42] gigimon: ну чтобы человек заполнял его

[16:22:52] a1fred is now xa
[16:23:10] gigimon: а все

[16:23:12] gigimon: азобрался

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[16:35:46] Большой Лис: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZFJSQLxS1s
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[16:35:51] Большой Лис: кто знает шо за музон?
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[17:13:55] gigimon: подскажите, а если делаю form = Form1(request.POST)
оно само выбирает поля в посте для формы?

[17:14:14] gigimon: т.е. если в посте еще что-то будет, форма нормально отработает?
[17:15:15] xa4a: да
[17:16:09] XIT is now dnd
[17:17:30] sevenov: напомните по джанге. ModelForms там как реализован. Юзается save() из модели или у ModelForm есть свой метод save?
[17:18:12] sevenov: а, хм. Из модели, да.
[17:19:57] bergamot is now xa
[17:21:08] XIT is now dnd
[17:22:17] xa4a: sevenov: ну можно переопределить
[17:22:20] xa4a: тоесть перегрузить
[17:22:55] Typhon is now away
[17:23:05] sevenov: xa4a, это-то понятно.
[17:23:11] sevenov: /me задумался =\
[17:23:35] gigimon: о смысле save()?

[17:24:40] sevenov: gigimon, типа того, ага. О смысле джанги вообще )
[17:25:05] zulorflare: 42 ;)
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[17:43:53] MAVr is now Да, я тут
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[17:49:34] gigimon: такс, подскажите, в питоне через что легче всего сделать ping?
помню на форуме кто-то писал и выкладывал)
[17:50:01] gigimon: вроде даже агент
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[17:54:57] zulorflare is now xa
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[17:59:07] cutwater: через popen проще всего :D
[17:59:23] cutwater: unix-way так сказать
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[18:40:39] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
[18:42:13] XIT is now dnd
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[18:48:44] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
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[18:48:47] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
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[19:13:01] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
[19:13:02] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
[19:13:23] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
[19:13:50] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
[19:14:20] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
[19:14:26] tilarids is now online
[19:14:50] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
[19:15:21] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
[19:15:51] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
[19:16:21] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
[19:16:51] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
[19:16:51] PC is now online
[19:17:14] XIT is now dnd
[19:17:21] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
[19:17:51] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
[19:18:21] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
[19:18:52] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
[19:19:22] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
[19:20:37] _lorien is now online
[19:21:50] _lorien: http://roem.ru/2009/06/22/addednews11191/
не пойму, что за взлом такой, а кто на эти урлы то кликак, если их просто создать, кто про них будет знать?
[19:22:15] XIT is now dnd
[19:22:22] Большой Лис is now online
[19:22:23] mishok13 is now xa
[19:25:35] lievil is now away
[19:26:26] tilarids is now away
[19:26:36] ilnur.soft is now online
[19:26:43] ilnur.soft is now offline
[19:27:16] XIT is now dnd
[19:28:03] lievil is now online
[19:30:32] cheshirecat is now online
[19:32:16] XIT is now dnd
[19:35:33] cheshirecat is now away
[19:35:40] xa4a: _lorien: ты пишешь твит, вставляешь в него свой линк укороченный. фолловер кликает по короткому линку и попадает не туда, куда ты хотел его послать
[19:36:25] tilarids is now xa
[19:37:16] XIT is now dnd
[19:38:04] a1fred is now xa
[19:38:05] a1fred is now xa
[19:40:48] MAVr is now away
[19:42:16] XIT is now dnd
[19:42:25] MAVr is now Да, я тут
[19:43:03] Большой Лис is now offline
[19:43:44] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
[19:47:18] XIT is now dnd
[19:47:23] mishok13 is now online
[19:49:00] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
[19:49:01] a1fred is now away
[19:49:02] a1fred is now away
[19:49:10] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
[19:49:11] a1fred is now chat
[19:49:12] a1fred is now chat
[19:49:46] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
[19:49:47] a1fred is now away
[19:49:49] a1fred is now chat
[19:49:50] a1fred is now dnd
[19:49:51] a1fred is now dnd
[19:49:53] a1fred is now chat
[19:49:54] a1fred is now dnd
[19:49:55] a1fred is now dnd
[19:49:57] a1fred is now dnd
[19:49:58] a1fred is now dnd
[19:49:58] a1fred is now xa
[19:50:00] a1fred is now dnd
[19:50:01] a1fred is now dnd
[19:50:02] a1fred is now dnd
[19:52:18] XIT is now dnd
[19:52:23] mishok13 is now away
[19:53:00] _lorien is now offline
[19:54:11] MAVr is now away
[19:55:00] _lorien is now online
[19:55:29] _lorien is now offline
[19:55:46] XIT is now offline
[19:56:11] MAVr is now xa
[20:00:02] Effgen is now away
[20:01:26] Большой Лис is now online
[20:02:23] mishok13 is now xa
[20:02:31] Ferroman is now online
[20:05:27] Effgen is now Я здесь.
[20:05:57] Ferroman is now offline
[20:07:36] tilarids is now online
[20:07:56] Portnov is now offline
[20:07:57] Portnov is now online
[20:11:02] sevenov is now offline
[20:12:36] tilarids is now away
[20:13:02] a1fred is now dnd
[20:13:32] a1fred is now dnd
[20:13:43] MAVr is now away
[20:13:58] MAVr is now Да, я тут
[20:14:02] a1fred is now dnd
[20:14:32] a1fred is now dnd
[20:15:02] a1fred is now dnd
[20:15:32] a1fred is now dnd
[20:16:02] a1fred is now dnd
[20:16:33] a1fred is now dnd
[20:17:03] a1fred is now dnd
[20:17:33] a1fred is now dnd
[20:17:49] MAVr is now offline
[20:18:03] a1fred is now dnd
[20:18:24] xa4a is now away
[20:18:33] a1fred is now dnd
[20:19:04] a1fred is now dnd
[20:19:22] lievil is now away
[20:19:24] lievil is now online
[20:19:34] a1fred is now dnd
[20:20:04] a1fred is now dnd
[20:20:20] xa4a is now online
[20:20:34] a1fred is now dnd
[20:21:05] a1fred is now dnd
[20:21:35] a1fred is now dnd
[20:21:59] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
[20:22:05] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
[20:22:35] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
[20:22:36] tilarids is now xa
[20:23:05] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
[20:23:36] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
[20:24:06] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
[20:24:36] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
[20:25:06] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
[20:25:37] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
[20:26:07] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
[20:26:21] slav0nic is now online
[20:26:37] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
[20:27:05] Клёвый_Ноль is now offline
[20:27:08] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
[20:27:38] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
[20:28:08] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
[20:28:38] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
[20:28:47] PC is now offline
[20:33:20] Typhon is now online
[20:34:40] Большой Лис is now away
[20:34:47] lievil is now away
[20:35:16] tilarids is now online
[20:35:29] lievil is now online
[20:38:58] Typhon is now away
[20:39:02] Typhon is now online
[20:39:38] Garison2004 is now online
[20:39:57] slav0nic is now away
[20:42:06] tilarids is now away
[20:44:40] Большой Лис is now xa
[20:44:54] Effgen is now away
[20:45:18] Большой Лис is now online
[20:47:23] mishok13 is now online
[20:47:57] Клёвый_Ноль is now dnd
[20:48:00] Клёвый_Ноль is now dnd
[20:49:57] slav0nic is now xa
[20:50:20] Effgen is now Я здесь.
[20:51:52] bergamot is now offline
[20:51:53] slav0nic is now online
[20:52:06] tilarids is now xa
[20:52:23] mishok13 is now away
[20:57:38] Typhon is now away
[21:02:23] mishok13 is now xa
[21:03:32] Typhon is now online
[21:03:52] a1fred is now xa
[21:06:27] slav0nic is now away
[21:13:09] Portnov is now away
[21:16:27] slav0nic is now xa
[21:17:03] Portnov is now online
[21:17:04] Portnov is now offline
[21:17:08] Portnov is now online
[21:19:16] tilarids is now online
[21:20:09] slav0nic is now online
[21:20:48] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
[21:25:06] tilarids is now away
[21:26:53] slav0nic is now away
[21:29:52] cutwater is now online
[21:31:48] Effgen is now away
[21:32:11] slav0nic is now online
[21:32:21] Муркт is now away
[21:32:30] XIT is now dnd
[21:32:31] XIT is now dnd
[21:32:32] XIT is now dnd
[21:32:33] XIT is now dnd
[21:32:35] XIT is now dnd
[21:32:35] XIT is now dnd
[21:33:56] tilarids is now online
[21:34:53] XIT is now dnd
[21:35:10] lievil is now away
[21:37:51] Effgen is now Я здесь.
[21:39:53] XIT is now dnd
[21:39:56] cutwater is now offline
[21:40:51] slav0nic is now away
[21:44:53] XIT is now dnd
[21:45:10] lievil is now xa
[21:47:07] [ZioN] is now away
[21:47:08] [ZioN] is now away
[21:47:20] nJLyTo is now online
[21:48:36] nJLyTo is now offline
[21:48:37] nJLyTo is now online
[21:48:46] tilarids is now away
[21:49:11] Portnov is now offline
[21:49:13] Portnov is now online
[21:49:16] Portnov is now online
[21:49:19] Portnov is now online
[21:49:54] XIT is now dnd
[21:50:51] slav0nic is now xa
[21:54:30] xa4a is now offline
[21:54:53] XIT is now dnd
[21:54:59] Typhon is now away
[21:55:08] xa4a is now online
[21:57:39] xa4a is now offline
[21:57:59] xa4a is now online
[21:58:46] tilarids is now xa
[21:59:53] XIT is now dnd
[22:01:08] nJLyTo is now offline
[22:01:37] Portnov is now away
[22:01:43] Portnov is now online
[22:04:31] klichuk is now offline
[22:04:53] bbodio is now online
[22:04:54] XIT is now dnd
[22:04:59] Typhon is now xa
[22:07:21] Typhon is now online
[22:08:14] klichuk is now online
[22:09:55] XIT is now dnd
[22:09:55] red-agent is now offline
[22:09:55] klichuk is now offline
[22:12:23] Typhon is now away
[22:13:25] slav0nic is now online
[22:14:27] Effgen is now away
[22:14:39] Portnov is now away
[22:14:55] XIT is now dnd
[22:18:15] Portnov is now online
[22:18:47] red-agent is now No medication can kill the truth
[22:18:49] slav0nic is now away
[22:19:55] XIT is now dnd
[22:19:58] Effgen is now Я здесь.
[22:20:36] tilarids is now online
[22:22:24] Typhon is now xa
[22:24:40] Typhon is now online
[22:24:55] XIT is now dnd
[22:25:36] tilarids is now away
[22:28:49] slav0nic is now xa
[22:29:56] XIT is now dnd
[22:31:16] lievil is now online
[22:33:57] Typhon is now away
[22:34:56] XIT is now dnd
[22:35:36] tilarids is now xa
[22:36:16] lievil is now away
[22:37:06] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
[22:37:36] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
[22:38:06] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
[22:38:36] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
[22:39:56] XIT is now dnd
[22:41:16] lievil is now online
[22:41:57] Garison2004 is now offline
[22:43:56] Typhon is now xa
[22:44:56] XIT is now dnd
[22:46:18] lievil is now away
[22:46:49] slav0nic is now online
[22:49:56] XIT is now dnd
[22:51:09] Portnov is now offline
[22:53:08] Большой Лис is now away
[22:54:04] pzskc383 is now offline
[22:54:54] a1fred is now xa
[22:54:57] XIT is now dnd
[22:54:58] red-agent is now xa
[22:56:18] lievil is now xa
[22:59:57] XIT is now dnd
[23:02:04] bbodio is now offline
[23:02:11] klichuk is now online
[23:02:25] klichuk is now offline
[23:02:31] bbodio is now online
[23:02:32] klichuk is now online
[23:02:47] bbodio is now offline
[23:03:08] Большой Лис is now xa
[23:03:11] klichuk is now offline
[23:03:18] klichuk is now online
[23:04:58] XIT is now dnd
[23:06:32] a1fred is now Да, я здесь.
[23:09:59] XIT is now dnd
[23:10:27] Typhon is now online
[23:11:47] Effgen is now away
[23:14:59] XIT is now dnd
[23:16:46] Typhon is now offline
[23:16:58] Большой Лис is now online
[23:18:48] Effgen is now Я здесь.
[23:19:59] XIT is now dnd
[23:24:25] Большой Лис is now away
[23:25:00] XIT is now dnd
[23:29:18] lievil is now online
[23:30:00] XIT is now dnd
[23:32:43] slav0nic is now away
[23:35:00] XIT is now dnd
[23:40:01] XIT is now dnd
[23:40:21] огыешсук is now offline
[23:41:45] Effgen is now offline
[23:42:43] slav0nic is now xa
[23:42:54] a1fred is now xa
[23:43:55] Большой Лис is now offline
[23:45:01] XIT is now dnd
[23:49:42] xa4a is now away
[23:50:01] XIT is now dnd
[23:53:58] XIT is now offline
[23:57:45] slav0nic is now online