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[07:20:11] feedbot: This was DjangoCon 2009 http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/9kml6/this_was_djangocon_2009/
Open Source Is Really About Documentation – Twisted vs. Tornado http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/9kmi9/open_source_is_really_about_documentation_twisted/
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[08:20:10] feedbot: Evolutionary Algorithms in python, queens example http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/9kmgb/evolutionary_algorithms_in_python_queens_example/
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[09:30:05] mr.oduvan: всем привет
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[09:30:19] mr.oduvan: Django-translate ктото когда нить пользовался?
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[09:32:35] mr.oduvan: ооо django-transmeta - это помоему по моднее будет
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[09:34:59] Typhon: "Evolutionary Algorithms in python, queens example" -- ебанись нахуй какой-то
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[09:35:56] mr.oduvan: и вам доброе утро
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[09:45:43] wiz: вчера тоже жесткач всякий был про классификацию
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[09:56:58] wiz: orbited цука унаследовал все родовые травмы твистеда - уродскую и устаревшую документацию в левых блогах и энтерпрайз в настройках.
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[10:05:57] mishok13: тычо, твистед идеален
[10:06:01] mishok13: глиф гарантирует
[10:06:09] mishok13: хуле ты к нему доебался ваще
[10:06:31] mishok13: /me всё еще наблюдает драму твистедоебов
[10:06:40] tilarids: по поводу торнадо?
[10:06:56] Большой Лис: а торнадо на твистеде?!
[10:07:10] tilarids: нет
[10:07:38] mishok13: а по поводу чего еще можно было такой баттхёрт увидеть?
[10:07:43] tilarids: /me вообще не врубает, чего столько шума с этого торнадо
[10:07:56] tilarids: ну, фигнь и фигнь. Ничего особенного
[10:08:06] mishok13: ну, у него нормальная дока и нормальный код
[10:08:15] mishok13: это вам не твистед, бял
[10:08:41] tilarids: гм, ну, там банально мало кода. Отсюда и применимость невелика
[10:09:12] tilarids: для такого количества кода ничего удивительного, что документация нормальная
[10:10:03] mishok13: ыххыххыхыххы
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[10:10:14] mishok13: оказывается, качество документации от количества кода зависит
[10:10:33] mishok13: продолжаешь троллить, да?
[10:10:38] tilarids: mishok13, качество никак не зависит. Сложность написания зависит
[10:10:49] mishok13: ыххыххыхыххы
[10:11:07] mishok13: и что же мешало твистедоебам написать нормальную доку для twisted.python.log?
[10:11:21] mishok13: там сложностей никаких не было, по-моему
[10:11:37] tilarids: mishok13, я не защищаю twisted, не надо у меня это спрашивать
[10:11:57] tilarids: видимо, это никому из тех, кто в нём разбирается, не понадобилось
[10:12:02] mishok13: вово
[10:12:19] tilarids: ну, так опенсорс софт пишется для себя изначально
[10:12:27] Большой Лис: mishok13, "ибо сорец лучшая документация" :D
[10:12:31] tilarids: и только воистину классные чуваки думают и о других
[10:12:37] mishok13: что однако не помешало авторам торнадо написать доку
[10:12:52] mishok13: и авторам джанги, пилонсов и веркзойга
[10:13:10] mishok13: и даже авторам камелии
[10:13:28] tilarids: mishok13, ты намекаешь на то, что авторы твистеда не такие классные чуваки, как авторы торнадо, джанги и веркзойга?
[10:13:29] Typhon: mishok13: почини бложек
[10:13:31] Typhon: ^_^
[10:13:46] mishok13: tilarids, я не намекаю
[10:14:10] tilarids: Большой Лис, в случае твистеда это не совсем так :) Но многое можно почерпнуть из кода, если немного в него повтыкать
[10:14:22] mishok13: уже хз сколько времени в irc на вопрос о тредах, клиент-серверах и тому подобному ответ всегда один "use twisted"
[10:14:32] mishok13: на вопрос, "а хуле у твистеда доки нету"
[10:14:46] mishok13: звучит замечательный ответ "а ты разберись и напиши"
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[10:15:47] mishok13: и вот это меня жутко всегда раздражало
[10:16:25] mishok13: и я указывал на это, но мне отвечали "всё хуйня твистед форевер"
[10:16:33] tilarids: mishok13, критиковать легко. Форкни, назови его как-нибудь иначе, выкинь мусор, напиши классную доку. Тогда ты будешь мегачел, а глиф и другие - унылыми поцами. Сейчас же то, что они делают, позволяет делать классные вещи очень быстро. За что я им и благодарен
[10:16:33] mishok13: теперь забавно смотреть на их реакцию
[10:16:52] mishok13: еще один
[10:16:59] Typhon: сперва добейся ) tilarids троллит
[10:17:02] mishok13: да я просто не буду пользоваться твистедом
[10:17:14] tilarids: а за хорошие доки авторам джанги и прочих - вдвойне благодарен
[10:17:36] mishok13: cogen, fibra, kamaelia, теперь еще и tornado <-- всё это элементарно выигрывает у твистеда за счет отношения к пользователю
[10:17:59] mishok13: /me умышленно не назвал еще с десяток либ
[10:18:09] Typhon: у фибры доков тож нету толком :) но тамм и кода меньше в сто раз :)
[10:18:22] mishok13: фибру да, надо бы выкинуть
[10:18:25] mishok13: :)
[10:18:57] mishok13: заменим ее на py.execnet
[10:19:02] Typhon: о!
[10:19:06] Typhon: это да :)
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[10:19:33] tilarids: у них есть существенные недостатки
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[10:19:59] tilarids: под них мало пишут :(
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[10:20:44] mishok13: ?
[10:21:20] mishok13: начнем с того, что под твистед пишут не больше
[10:21:31] tilarids: mishok13, используя твистед ты получаешь множество готовых сторонних компонентов. Используя всё перечисленное тобой ты себя намеренно ограничиваешь
[10:21:46] mishok13: каких сторонних компонентов?
[10:21:58] mishok13: в чем я себя ограничиваю используя execnet?
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[10:24:02] wiz: ок. чем твистед заменить?
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[10:24:46] slav0nic: чёт судя по слайдам джангокона, там было скучно)
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[10:26:04] tilarids: mishok13, ну, давай сформируем задачу, а ты расскажешь, как ее решать на execnet:
Есть какой-то сервис, который по xml-rpc можно запрашивать и он выдаёт котировки акций. Тебе нужно транслировать эти котировки в твиттер и куче гтолк клиентов. Как ты это будешь делать с предложенными тобой либами?
[10:27:15] mishok13: ыхыххыхы
[10:27:18] mishok13: уникальная задача
[10:27:22] slav0nic: за акции газпрома отвечу
[10:27:24] mishok13: требующая конечно твистеда
[10:27:36] tilarids: mishok13, она может как угодно решаться
[10:27:45] tilarids: но на твистеде она делается за два часа
[10:27:54] mishok13: на тредах она делается за два часа
[10:28:03] mishok13: на multiprocessing она делается за два часа
[10:28:19] mishok13: на <подставь что угодно асинхронное> она делается за два часа
[10:29:16] tilarids: mishok13, тебе тредов хватит? ;) И на <чем угодно асинхронном> что ты будешь использовать для связи с жаббером, например?
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[10:30:40] wiz: mishok13, кстати, не ты ли делал реакцию бразуера на звонок в колцентре?
[10:30:40] mishok13: xmpppy, нет?
[10:30:52] mishok13: wiz, неа
[10:31:01] mishok13: я с коллцентрами не работаю
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[10:31:28] Typhon: wiz: Большой Лис, не ?
[10:31:41] tilarids: mishok13, xmpppy же синхронный? Ты предлагаешь его в тредах пускать?
[10:31:57] mishok13: OHBOYWHATTODO
[10:31:59] Большой Лис: йайа
[10:32:08] mishok13: tilarids, ты так боишься тредов для IO?
[10:32:13] Большой Лис: но я чисто гипотетически
[10:32:18] Большой Лис: до реализации дло так и не дошло
[10:32:21] Большой Лис: ибо надобность отпала
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[10:32:28] mishok13: я тебя расстрою -- треды для IO работают быстрее твистедов и камелий
[10:32:51] mishok13: твоя задача -- чистый IO
[10:32:58] tilarids: mishok13, нет, просто если всё делать тредами, тогда вообще нафига всякая асинхронность нужна?
[10:33:05] mishok13: обычный мультиплексер
[10:33:24] mishok13: ну привет
[10:33:50] mishok13: асинхронность нужна там, где питоновские треды становятся главным тормозом
[10:33:55] mishok13: не в этой задаче, хыхы
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[10:35:20] tilarids: блин, ладно. Я задачу из головы брал и ничего не профайлил. Идея примера в том, чтобы представить сервис, который связывается с другими сервисами по более-менее стандартным протоколам.
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[10:36:10] mr.oduvan: утренние холивары.. хех..... детвора... :)))
[10:36:14] tilarids: твистед идёт в комплекте с кучей компонентов (внешних и внутренних), которые предоставляют сразу асинхронный способ получать данные
[10:36:47] 0lejka is now I'm not here right now
[10:36:48] tilarids: всё, что выше представлено - молодое, идёт почти без contribа и внешних компонентов мало
[10:37:12] mishok13: перевод: твистед страдает NIH в гигантских масштабах, но разрабы это всячески отрицают
[10:37:35] mishok13: бля, в твистед вообще коммитит десять человек из Twisted Foundation и всё
[10:37:51] tilarids: и для написания своего софта нужно или использовать синхронные либы и юзать треды (от которых мы пытались уйти, используя <асинхронное что-то>) или писать своё асинхронное.
[10:37:52] mishok13: в огромный репозиторий
[10:38:19] poltergeist is now online
[10:38:32] mishok13: охбял
[10:38:43] mishok13: ТВИСТЕД В КАЖДУЮ ДЫРКУ
[10:38:50] mishok13: из крайности в крайность
[10:39:38] Большой Лис: фыв
[10:39:57] Большой Лис: пинг
[10:40:05] erraen is now online
[10:40:38] tilarids: mishok13, факинщит. Я не заставляю тебя писать на твистеде. Я просто говорю, что на твистеде многие вещи сделать легче, чем используя другие асинхронные фреймворки, даже несмотря на качество твистедовоского кода и документации
[10:40:38] Большой Лис: фыв
[10:40:45] tilarids: Большой Лис, ack
[10:41:18] Большой Лис: tilarids, ты путаешь ping с syn :)
[10:41:28] mishok13: """многие вещи сделать легче ... несмотря на качество твистедовоского кода и документации"""
[10:41:41] mishok13: взаимоисключающие параграфы
[10:41:46] mishok13: харе троллить
[10:41:48] tilarids: Большой Лис, ну, ты же именно ack хотел? ;)
[10:44:07] tilarids: mishok13, ничего они не взаимоисключающие. Отсутсвие документации усложняет процесс, а не делает его невозможным.
[10:44:26] tilarids: *отсутствие
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[10:46:16] ыапэ is now я тут
[10:46:17] ыапэ is now я тут
[10:46:46] ыапэ is now я тут
[10:46:48] ыапэ is now я тут
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[10:47:00] mishok13: ыыы
[10:47:08] mishok13: так усложняет или упрощает?
[10:47:16] ыапэ is now я тут
[10:47:18] ыапэ is now я тут
[10:47:19] mishok13: хватит троллить, я еще раз говорю
[10:47:28] mishok13: иди ищи баги hg и биос в маке
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[10:49:33] tilarids: mishok13, читать умеешь? написано "отсутствие - усложняет". Я упростил предложение до подлежащего и сказуемого
[10:50:05] tilarids: ладно, дискуссия что-то превращается из конструктивной в унылую
[10:50:07] erraen is now online
[10:50:09] tilarids: пойду на работу
[10:50:23] tilarids is now offline
[10:50:27] mishok13: написано "писать легче но документации нету"
[10:50:31] mishok13: слив засчитан
[10:50:52] cutwater: утро всем у уютненьком pythonua@
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[11:07:43] Typhon is now A21 -- power rage!
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[11:09:19] Typhon: "Фактически, по возможностям, разницы между mercurial и git мало, может разве что git умеет чуть больше извращений, никогда не нужных на практике. Однако mercurial написан для людей, а git — для линуксоидов. Вот и вся разница."
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[11:10:58] mishok13: Typhon, это ты вдогонку к дискуссии о твистеде?
[11:11:53] ыапэ is now away
[11:12:05] Typhon: потроллить, ага :) не, просто цитато понравилась
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[11:55:50] wiz: есть адекватное распознавание речи (русской ессно) для asterisk?
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[11:57:10] tilarids: /me не встречал
[11:57:27] wiz: жаль...
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[12:00:08] Typhon is now A21 -- power rage!
[12:00:11] erraen is now online
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[12:04:51] pzskc383: я вообще адекватного распознавания русской речи не встречал
[12:04:59] wonderfulll is now online
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[12:05:18] StormChild: русская ресь не распознается адекватно :-D
[12:06:02] tilarids: wiz: а тебе зачем вообще?
[12:06:32] wiz: с абонентами трепаться
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[12:12:43] sevenov: wiz, нужна нейросеть обученная годами )
[12:13:18] wiz: или хотябы годлайками
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[12:13:34] Ляпатяпа: /me таки сносно настроил awesome
[12:14:07] sevenov: хотя, нейросеть - хуй, когда речь заходит о разговре. Хотя бы даже о тупом диалоге в уютненьком чятике.
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[12:17:18] tilarids: wiz: с абонентами трепаться можно девушек посадить
[12:17:32] ыапэ is now away
[12:17:46] tilarids: они адекватно распознают русскую речь
[12:18:03] wiz: их тяжело в систему интегрировать
[12:18:08] wiz: хуй заскриптуешь
[12:18:42] лорд Морфий: привет
[12:19:02] ыапэ is now я тут
[12:19:09] лорд Морфий: а никто случаем сцылку на пример не покажет, где на pyqt нестандартной формы окна делают ??? в частности круглое ?
[12:19:35] cutwater is now offline
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[12:20:07] tilarids: wiz: моё мнение таково, что девушек проще интегрировать в систему, чем написать адекватное распознавание русской речи и систему искусственного интеллекта
[12:20:11] erraen is now online
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[12:20:45] tilarids: wiz: может, тебе меню хватит?
[12:20:52] pzskc383: Ляпатяпа: версию?
[12:20:59] pzskc383: овёсома
[12:21:24] wiz: в принципе простых команд конечно тоже хватит, но тут уже проблема в адекватности абонентов звонящих
[12:21:27] Ляпатяпа: awesome v3.3.4 (Mercury)
• Build: Sep 9 2009 21:57:37 for i686 by gcc version 4.4.1
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[12:24:39] pzskc383: я 3.4-rc1 на выходных поставил, под него библиотека виджетов есть, obvious
[12:24:47] pzskc383: но она оказалась говном :(
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[12:25:48] Ляпатяпа: pywmii кто-нибудь юзал?
[12:26:07] Ляпатяпа: конфиги на питоне - этож тру
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[12:26:19] Ляпатяпа: вот надоест авесом - попробую его
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[13:07:05] mr.oduvan: wiz , у циски вроде есть система, но стоит дохера
[13:07:29] mr.oduvan: но там помоему тоже для простых комманд
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[13:16:22] wiz: для простых команд я и сам себе сделаю...
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[13:17:43] unk2k: делаем модель из формы, путем ModelForm
если в модели у нас ForeignKey, то в форме он отобразится как <select ...>
вопрос, как избавиться от <option>-------</option>
default=1 / default=model.objects.get(id=1) / default='1' - no results
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[13:18:45] unk2k: _lorine, Большой Лис, помогите господа
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[13:20:03] tilarids: blank/null если сделать False?
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[13:20:09] Большой Лис: unk2k, там чото был метод
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[13:20:15] Большой Лис: как же его...
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[13:20:25] feedbot: Lead Django Developer http://djangogigs.com/gigs/698/
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[13:20:59] Большой Лис: йоба...забыл
[13:23:00] unk2k: tilarids - no results
[13:23:15] unk2k: Большой Лис ;(
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[13:23:56] unk2k: и сам интерес, по сути то ForeignKey не может же быть null или blank
[13:24:08] unk2k: <option>-------</option> - говорит что может
[13:24:13] unk2k: => баг
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[13:24:49] wiz: фича
[13:24:59] wiz: юзер не выбравший ничего получит ошибку
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[13:25:07] wiz: а не дефолт
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[13:25:35] unk2k: =) и что же делать ?
[13:26:12] wiz: jQuery("option[!value]").delete()
[13:26:13] unk2k: выводить надпись что то типа 'будь внимательней паскуда ?'
[13:26:23] unk2k: wiz - неа
[13:26:26] unk2k: давай другой =)
[13:26:28] wiz: вообще странно, что дефолт не работает
[13:26:36] unk2k: угу
[13:26:43] wiz: вот это уже баг (=
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[13:27:07] unk2k: куда надо написссать что бы быстренько поправили ?
[13:27:16] unk2k: в исходники ?
[13:27:57] wiz: в #django ?
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[13:28:04] wiz: irc.freenode.net
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[13:37:37] unk2k: wiz я английског не знаю
[13:38:21] sevenov: вижу жабаскрипт. В чем вопрос? )
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[13:38:45] wiz: fuck you fucking fucks!
<option>---------</option>
fucking default=1, default='1', default=model.objects.get(pk=1) is fucked!
please fuc^Whelp!
[13:39:16] sevenov: о_О
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[13:39:20] sevenov: вот фак!
[13:39:35] sevenov: wiz, ты только что прогнал бедного PC (
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[13:42:19] Portnov: был какой-то язык, в котором надо было через слово please вставлять. Теперь вот ещё придумали - что без матов не работает :)
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[13:43:29] pzskc383: обновил nginx, сплю спокойно
[13:43:38] sevenov: Кстати, а никто не подскажет язык, на котором смогли что-то написать только тогда, когда написали программу, которая пишет на этом яп.
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[13:43:52] sevenov: pzskc383, теперь не будет спамить? xD
[13:43:56] wiz: брэйнфак
[13:43:59] wiz: ой не
[13:44:00] sevenov: та не.
[13:44:01] wiz: malbolge
[13:44:14] sevenov: А, да )
[13:44:16] pzskc383: sevenov: ну там действительно уязвимость свежая
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[13:46:30] sevenov: pzskc383, а что за дырка-то?
[13:46:54] pzskc383: http://www.securityfocus.com/bid/36384
[13:47:25] nmk: я у себя кое где уже обновил. кое где жду пакетов. там этот ебанный centos
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[13:48:26] sevenov: ясно.
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[14:37:46] mr.oduvan: народ
[14:38:11] mr.oduvan: чото понять никак не могу :( как мне дампить только одну таблицу pg_dump ом?
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[14:41:19] mr.oduvan: если в таблице есть '_'
[14:41:34] mr.oduvan: как заквотить - с ним не хочет
[14:42:19] Большой Лис: mr.oduvan, man pg_dump читни, что ли
[14:42:28] Большой Лис: поймёшь сразу
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[14:44:27] mr.oduvan: чото пока не понял... если хочеш можеш ткнуть носом и поиздеваться
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[14:45:25] Большой Лис: поищи там --table
[14:45:31] nmk: а в subprocess.Popen SrtingIO как stdout только через обертку загнать можно?
[14:45:35] Большой Лис: и ещё есть, --exclude-table
[14:45:37] Большой Лис: или как то так
[14:46:12] mr.oduvan: если в таблице есть '_'
[14:46:29] mr.oduvan: подстрочное тире
[14:46:35] mr.oduvan: то не работает
[14:46:37] mr.oduvan: :)
[14:46:37] Большой Лис: а в чём проблема ?!
[14:46:41] Большой Лис: гм
[14:46:46] Большой Лис: помоему ты чото путаешь
[14:46:51] Большой Лис: но я ща попробую
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[14:47:07] mr.oduvan: если тебе не сложно
[14:48:40] Большой Лис:
[root ~]# pg_dump -U postgres -t auth_group -t auth_user crafts > dump.sql
[root ~]# grep "CREATE TABLE" dump.sql
CREATE TABLE auth_group (
CREATE TABLE auth_user (
[14:48:45] Большой Лис: всё зашибись
[14:48:57] mr.oduvan: а мож еще маленький эксперимент
[14:49:03] mr.oduvan: сделай таблицу
[14:49:12] mr.oduvan: Auth_user
[14:49:27] mr.oduvan: и сделай ее дамп :)
[14:49:35] mr.oduvan: плз
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[14:50:36] Большой Лис: регистр не имеет значения
[14:50:49] Большой Лис:
crafts=# CREATE TABLE Huiuf_user();
CREATE TABLE
crafts=# \q
[root ~]# pg_dump -U postgres -t Huiuf_user crafts > dump.sql
[root ~]# grep "CREATE TABLE" dump.sql
CREATE TABLE huiuf_user (
[root ~]#
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[14:51:37] mr.oduvan: блин... я тогда вобще ничо не понимаю
[14:51:39] mr.oduvan: :)
[14:51:51] Большой Лис: хоть я и писал название таблицы с большой буквы
а \dt показывает всё в нижнем
public | huiuf_user | таблица | postgres
[14:51:53] mr.oduvan: ну ладно...
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[14:52:41] mr.oduvan: я сделал просто так pg_dump -t '*_readymaps' gameforweb
[14:53:08] mr.oduvan: и так заработало, а с большой буквы вначале не хотело :)
[14:53:11] mr.oduvan: дякую
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[15:20:07] feedbot: Tornado as your server: (initial) WSGI support lands in Tornado http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/9kq1t/tornado_as_your_server_initial_wsgi_support_lands/
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[15:25:07] slav0nic: заманали уже посты про торнадо
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[15:26:58] Большой Лис: http://www.linux.org.ru/view-message.jsp?msgid=4046678
[15:27:08] Большой Лис: slav0nic, мне кажется это только начало
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[15:33:59] mishok13: drama queens еще долго будут рыдать
[15:34:29] sevenov: торнадо такая няшечка.
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[16:08:40] slav0nic: http://news2.ru/story/191490/
гы
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[16:33:19] StormChild: http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/exploits_of_a_mom.png
[16:33:23] StormChild: ой, нитуда.
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[17:16:35] nmk: а никто не знает, в zipе кодировка имени файла никак не регламентируется? т.е. какая на фс такая и в зипе?
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[17:19:33] mishok13: никак
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[17:20:32] nmk: а винды из последних как пишут?
[17:20:55] mishok13: ну ты и спросил
[17:21:13] nmk: ну вдруг :) я гуглю. но кто говорит utf16, кто utf8
[17:21:15] mishok13: судя по багам CPython с кодировками в винде ситуация напряжная
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[17:21:28] mishok13: ага, именно
[17:21:55] mishok13: там еще проблема BE/LE
[17:22:02] mishok13: на utf16
[17:22:08] nmk: эх. ладно. буду тупо пробовать utf8, если не получится то ascii и errors='ignore'
[17:22:12] mishok13: так что подозреваю, что методом проб и ошибок
[17:22:16] mishok13: или chardet'ом
[17:23:03] nmk: а насколько он точный?
[17:23:33] mishok13: из личного опыта -- очень точный
[17:24:10] nmk: спасибо, попробую.
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[17:25:44] nmk: mishok13: с shift_jis у него фиговенько :(
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[17:27:02] mishok13: Shift JIS это простите адовая кодировка и четких шаблонов у нее нету
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[17:27:05] mishok13: в отличии от
[17:27:30] nmk: ну да. потому как это на достаточно короткой строке он не смог, на строке подлинее смог..
[17:27:50] nmk: там у них много чего адового..
[17:28:06] mishok13: чем короче строка -- тем меньше вероятность угадать кодировку
[17:28:12] nmk: я понимаю
[17:28:36] mishok13: это как решать кубик Рубика со сторонами в 15 квадратиков -- паттернов столько, что можно ебнуться
[17:28:53] nmk: ну я вообще удивился, что chardet есть ;)
[17:29:07] nmk: т.е. так глобально на все кодировки
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[18:20:08] feedbot: Introduction to unittest. Starting Testing with Python http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/9kmf6/introduction_to_unittest_starting_testing_with/
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[18:27:39] wiz: нид хэлп по nginx
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[18:28:47] wiz: есть домен spam.egg и куча *.spam.egg
как для sausage.spam.egg сделать proxy_pass на /salad/sausage/ ?
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[18:29:22] wiz: просто $host кидает туда полный домен, if-ом выделить не получилось - гонит полный один фиг
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[18:57:21] nmk: а никто плотно с subprocess.Popen не работал? почему stdout может быть None, если в аргументах указано stdout=subprocess.PIPE ? причем походу это появляется только когда из треда это делается
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[19:11:07] wiz: какая там нынче самая свежая openid консюмерина для джанги?
[19:11:28] wiz: мне бы только чтоб дёрнуть 1 сервак и у него спросить directed identity
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[19:41:45] Мозгошредер is now Вероятность получения Вами цензурного и корректного ответа зависит от тупости Вашего вопроса обратно пропорционально
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[21:54:39] piranha is now Programming is like sex. One mistake and you have to support it for the rest of your life.
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[23:20:17] feedbot: Did Bruce Eckel abandon "Python 3 Patterns and Idioms"? http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/9kvgq/did_bruce_eckel_abandon_python_3_patterns_and/
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[23:37:23] sevenov: Так.
[23:37:25] sevenov: Что-то не то.
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