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[06:09:54] _lorien: http://micropipes.com/blog/2009/11/17/amo-development-changes-in-2010/
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[08:14:05] _lorien: http://memoryomsk.ru/Prays-list.html
молитвенные листы :D
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[08:14:58] red-agent: :D
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[08:41:11] _lorien: http://i.bigmir.net/img/prikol/images/large/6/1/135816_231558.jpg
[08:41:58] red-agent: Сосать сиски?
[08:42:04] red-agent: Чьи сиски-то?
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[09:01:31] dicos: Добрый день. Вопрос по Джанго. В одной модели таблицы очень много полей. Чтобы создать новую запись необходимо сделать так: apartment = Apartment(balcony=True, hasPhone=True, cost=10000, floors=9 ....) Есть ли способ передать значения по другому?
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[09:02:13] wiz: есть
[09:02:51] dicos: wiz: можешь поделиться способом?
[09:03:41] wiz: http://tinyurl.com/y8z7r69
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[09:04:23] dicos: wiz: Этот способ подразумевает доработку джанги
[09:04:27] dicos: не вариант
[09:04:50] wiz: чоооооо
[09:05:07] wiz: ты ещё скажи что он требует лицензию на питон
[09:05:16] wiz: хотя это было бы неплохо
[09:06:18] Typhon: справку от психиатра лучше б требовали
[09:06:52] red-agent: hasPhone=True
[09:07:00] red-agent: Былдостайл detected
[09:07:11] dicos: хм, судя по документации можно сделать так:
apartment = Apartment()
apartment.balcony = True
apartment.cost = 10000
[09:07:36] dicos: red-agent: а чем лучше такая запись has_phone = True
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[09:07:52] red-agent: Тем, что она конформится PEP8
[09:08:00] red-agent: Который тебе следовало бы прочесть.
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[09:23:09] _lorien: чё-то я вопрос не понял, как это по другому? )
[09:26:44] wiz: _lorien, через **
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[09:28:48] dicos: _lorien: можно так apartment = Apartment(balcony=True, hasPhone=True, cost=10000, floors=9 ....), но у меня список передаваемых аргументов очень длинный. Где-то нашел, что можно передавать значения перед сохранением так:
apartment = Apartment()
apartment.balcony = True
apartment.cost = 10000
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[09:30:10] _lorien: можно, сам так делаю иногда, по настроению )
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[09:31:34] _lorien: а много аргументов в одном вызовае я так обычно записываю:
foo = Foo(arg1=val1,
arg2=val2,...
или даже
foo = SomeFuckingLongFuncName(
arg1=val1,
arg2=val2)
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[09:44:19] tilarids: _lorien, второе ж не по пеповски
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[09:45:29] _lorien: а по пеповски получается слишком страшно
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[10:42:15] wiz: как же pip задрал везде своими пиплогами сыпать....
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[10:53:17] _lorien: да, он такой... приходится их в .hgignore пихать
[10:53:24] огыешсук: wiz: export PIP_LOG_FILE=/tmp/pip.log
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[11:03:37] _lorien: есть ли в джанге фильтра "12345" => "12 345"? не могу найти чего-то
[11:03:55] _lorien: intcomma есть в humanize - ето не то
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[11:08:54] wiz: intcomma|replace:",: " (=
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[11:09:08] _lorien: http://dumpz.org/14401/
жестоrо в джанге intcomma этот сделан :-/
[11:09:08] wiz: или intcomma|" "
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[11:09:28] _lorien: да я уж свой фильтр решил делать, всё равно надо ещё "руб." дописывать заодно )
[11:09:45] wiz: -P-
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[11:32:52] _lorien: а каким объектом в python выражаются штуки seq[x:y:z]?
[11:33:13] _lorien: как сказать то не знаю по нормальному ))
[11:34:07] _lorien: а, нашёл, функция slice
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[11:42:15] _lorien: data = force_unicode(value)
chunks = [data[max(0, x - 3):x] for x in xrange(len(data), 0, -3)][::-1]
data = ' '.join(chunks)
return data + u' руб.'
гмгм, страшновательно получилось
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[11:45:08] wiz: гитхаб лежит чтоль?
[11:45:19] wiz: никак не разродится даунлоадом
[11:45:29] _lorien: у меня работает
[11:45:37] _lorien: а вообще, github не нужен
[11:45:51] wiz: дада. лаунчпад форева
[11:45:56] wiz: /me прыгнул в окоп
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[11:46:25] red-agent: /me бросил гранату wizу в догонку
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[11:48:20] Typhon: в python-ideas последнее время просто тихо, или я не получаю ничего?
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[11:50:58] xa4a: _lorien:
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[11:51:15] xa4a: !pydoc locale.format
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[11:52:03] xa4a: ещё там format_string
[11:52:09] xa4a: и ещё чего-то, может
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[11:54:01] _lorien: >>> print locale.currency(12345, grouping=True, symbol=False)
12 345.00
зобавненько
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[11:55:52] _lorien: xa4a, пасиб
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[11:56:21] xa4a: спасиб google://python+number+format
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[12:10:01] red-agent: Мне че-то впадло на абум ставить на девственно чистую систему.
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[12:10:09] red-agent: Пару дней назад только переставил.
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[12:10:54] xa4a: ./configure --prefix /tmp/leksah
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[12:12:08] red-agent: *н
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[12:19:21] xa4a: ухм. http://toki-woki.net/p/scroll-clock/
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[12:24:26] kwis: Здравствуйте товарищи. Не подскажете как можно отковырять пароль админа в джанге. А то забыл а занова все создавать неохота
[12:25:00] cutwater is now xa
[12:25:31] огыешсук: легко!
[12:25:46] red-agent: Вопросы какие-то не адекватные. Открой шелл да смени хеш пасса у юзера.
[12:26:06] wonderfulll is now online
[12:26:52] red-agent: С set_password вообще можно. Даже хешировать руками не прийдется.
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[12:38:45] RaD: вы отобираете хлеб у канала djangobook, редиски
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[12:44:22] _lorien: шо же делать
[12:44:25] erraen is now online
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[12:44:29] _lorien: давайте закроем djangobook, шоб ему не обидно было
[12:45:36] RaD: всё бы вам закрыть, отобрать да разделить
[12:46:06] wonderfulll is now away
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[12:49:26] erraen is now online
[12:50:23] pr0ks is now online
[12:50:54] _lorien: точно, разделим канал djangobook на два канала: django и book
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[12:53:50] red-agent: _lorien, И опять зажмёте мне флаг, сволочи? =(
[12:54:26] erraen is now online
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[13:15:21] feedbot: PyPy status Blog: Some Benchmarking against CPython and Unladen Swallow http://is.gd/4YGBW (www.reddit.com)
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[13:17:13] wiz: feedbot, баянишь
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[13:39:30] erraen is now online
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[13:40:06] mishok13: это скорее на реддите кто-то боянит
[13:40:31] PC is now away
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[13:45:51] Typhon: не особо старое вроде http://morepypy.blogspot.com/2009/11/some-benchmarking.html :)
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[14:27:19] xa4a_: никто диваны не продаёт?
[14:27:38] xa4a_: э.. тоесть никого из mydeco нет?
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[14:31:23] RaD: я только лампы продаю
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[14:56:31] gigimon is now Да, я здесь.
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[15:04:26] sevenov: Подкиньте ссылку на математику, челу дать почитать. Про случай типа 12.119999999
[15:04:35] erraen is now online
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[15:06:09] nmk: дай ему лучше это http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07ZSAmI09PI
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[16:11:07] nmk: http://pushmodule.slact.net/
[16:11:12] nmk: NGiNX_HTTP_Push_Module
[16:11:19] wonderfulll is now online
[16:12:40] xa4a_: wtf сверху справа
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[16:13:58] nmk: чат наверное
[16:14:33] wonderfulll: есть что-нибуть стандартное для разбивания интервала времени по дням?
[16:14:38] erraen is now online
[16:15:09] feedbot is now online
[16:15:10] feedbot: NumPy 1.4 coming soon! http://is.gd/4YNbJ (www.reddit.com)
[16:15:15] feedbot is now offline
[16:16:18] wonderfulll is now online
[16:16:43] wonderfulll: типа таког:
>>> get_period_days('2009-06-25', '2009-07-02')
[[2009, 6, 25], [2009, 6, 26], [2009, 6, 27], [2009, 6, 28], [2009, 6, 29], [2009, 6, 30], [2009, 7, 1], [2009, 7, 2]]
[16:17:23] sevenov: xa4a_, десонстрация же )
[16:17:42] kwis is now xa
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[16:21:19] wonderfulll is now online
[16:21:20] trurl is now Работаю
[16:21:37] poltergeist is now xa
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[16:24:40] erraen is now online
[16:25:12] poltergeist is now online
[16:26:08] Большой Лис: как-то оно странно работает
[16:26:18] Большой Лис: тыкается постоянно в /chat/pu
[16:26:20] wonderfulll is now online
[16:26:22] Большой Лис: pub
[16:26:25] Большой Лис: и висит
[16:26:34] Большой Лис: потом приходит ответ и оно заново вешается
[16:26:37] xa4a_: а.. это типа PoC
[16:27:48] RaD is now online
[16:28:22] denz is now xa
[16:28:49] Большой Лис: модуль пок? или JS который идёт на той странице?
[16:28:59] xa4a_: чат
[16:29:03] unk2k is now online
[16:29:09] unk2k: Буков Много, но очень интересная задача.
Есть ул, город, село, нас. пункт, область, район
К каждому из этих сущьностей привязана налоговая, а к каждой налоговая имеет одну маму (ИФНС -> УФНС)
УФНС - на регион
ИФНС - на сущьности
т.е. в г.Москве есть 50 налоговых, которые разбиты по поселкам и улицам, а в Пермском крае, налоговые разбиты по районам и городам.
Задача, человек вводит адрес, ему выдается ответ в какой он налоговой и кто у этой налоговой мама
Ваши идеи реализации. :)
[16:29:40] erraen is now online
[16:29:45] sevenov: Большой Лис, ну это нормально. Так оно и работает, Comet же. Открывается соединение к серверу, сервер думает, дает ответ клиенту.
[16:29:59] sevenov: а, стоп, заново?
[16:30:22] Большой Лис: ну ты позырь в файербаг
[16:30:24] Большой Лис: чо там творится
[16:30:36] Большой Лис: и початься чутос
[16:31:08] GrimbleGromble is now xa
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[16:32:09] sevenov: Ээээ.
>Connection keep-alive
А нафиг тогда делать каждый раз? оО
[16:32:19] sevenov: оно же асинхронно должно
[16:32:48] RaD is now online
[16:33:05] Большой Лис: типо ответ (событие) пришло, запрос считается завершённым
[16:33:09] Большой Лис: и открывает новое
[16:33:12] Большой Лис: и снова ждёт события
[16:33:35] sevenov: дык а keep-alive же.
[16:34:07] xa4a_: а жс откуда знает про keep-alive?
[16:34:15] xa4a_: или знает?
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[16:34:40] erraen is now online
[16:34:50] sevenov: хз...
[16:34:54] sevenov: надо покапаться )
[16:34:59] RaD: да не знаеь
[16:35:27] Большой Лис: keep-alive и запрос на разных плоскостях находятся
[16:35:46] Большой Лис: точнее layer-ах
[16:36:02] Большой Лис: tcp соединение просто не закрывается, а http запрос надо заново слать (и вешать на ожидание события)
[16:36:14] Большой Лис: 1 событие — 1 http (длинный) запрос
[16:36:20] Большой Лис: я так понимаю
[16:36:22] wonderfulll is now online
[16:36:44] RaD: ну по файлуре делаешь повторный запрос и так в цикле
[16:37:10] Большой Лис: либо failure либо событие приходит таки
[16:37:15] RaD: угу
[16:37:44] Большой Лис: одно хреново, надо собирать свой nginx
[16:37:46] Большой Лис: =]
[16:37:49] RaD is now online
[16:38:33] RaD: можно воткнуть экшнскрипт между ЖС и серваком
[16:38:34] mishok13 is now online
[16:39:18] Большой Лис:
location /chat/sub {
set $push_channel_id chatty; #static channel id
push_subscriber;
send_timeout 3600; #so that nginx won't drop connections willy-nilly
}
[16:39:21] Большой Лис: хохо
[16:39:25] Большой Лис: таймаут час
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[16:43:42] sevenov: Щас примерчик залью на сервер
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[16:47:21] Большой Лис is now online
[16:47:35] Большой Лис: ну чо, довольно круто
[16:47:43] Большой Лис: и не надо никаких ибучих флешей
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[16:52:24] sevenov: Большой Лис, ну да, открывается коннект и как только приходит ответ, закрывается.
[16:52:31] sevenov: Большой Лис, айда почятимся :D
[16:52:32] sevenov: http://sevenov.ru:8000/
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[16:53:52] Большой Лис: sevenov, ах ты хитрец, разнес pub/sub на post/get :)
[16:54:02] sevenov: Большой Лис, :))
[16:54:31] Большой Лис: sevenov, а шото я не понял
[16:54:35] sevenov: Большой Лис, зато так хоть фотку пости
[16:54:36] Большой Лис: какой mochiweb?!
[16:54:41] erraen is now online
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[16:54:48] sevenov: Большой Лис, эээ, нуууу
[16:54:52] sevenov: обычный :)
[16:54:52] Большой Лис: э?
[16:54:58] Большой Лис: а nginx гиде?
[16:55:29] sevenov: Большой Лис, а нафиг мне nginx? :) Думаешь я успел бы собрать, сконфигурить и т.п.?
[16:55:42] Большой Лис: а шо ты замутил?
[16:56:05] sevenov: Большой Лис, залил с ноута на вдску о_О
[16:56:19] Большой Лис: чо залил?!
[16:56:23] wonderfulll is now online
[16:56:27] sevenov: чятик :D
[16:56:29] Большой Лис: как оно без нгинкса-то пашет?
[16:56:48] sevenov: Большой Лис, mochiweb же
[16:57:01] sevenov: http://code.google.com/p/mochiweb/
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[16:57:28] xa4a_: /me предполагает, что с нгинксом это никак не связано
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[16:57:56] sevenov: Большой Лис, я просто к тому, что "и не надо никаких ибучих флешей" можно и на пейтоне славно сделать
[16:58:03] Большой Лис: это да
[16:58:07] Большой Лис: тут ты прав
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[17:01:11] gigimon: клевый у вас чатег )
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[17:03:13] sevenov: Все, уходим с pythonua@ в sevenov.ru:8000 :D
[17:04:15] tilarids: sevenov: а чего там?
[17:04:26] Typhon: чятик
[17:04:32] sevenov: а, я уже вырубил о_О
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[17:08:27] sevenov: Большой Лис, http://www.igvita.com/2009/10/21/nginx-comet-low-latency-server-push/ -- тут тоже про разнесенные post/get ;)
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[17:15:11] feedbot: PyMT (Multi-Touch with Python) http://is.gd/4YPBY (www.reddit.com)
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[17:24:01] xa4a_: _lorien: у тебя там не осталось лишних ссылок-инвайтов на гуглвейв?
[17:24:30] slav0nic: да нчего в этом вейве делать
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[17:25:54] xa4a_: в нём можно коллаборативно обсуждать
[17:25:59] xa4a_: уже есть что обсуждать.
[17:26:15] xa4a_: только не все из обсуждающих ещё "в системе"
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[17:26:25] mishok13: xa4a_, тебе дать инвайт чоле?
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[17:29:55] sevenov: Хм, а почему int a = a; нормально компилится и при этом работает?
[17:29:57] sevenov: си
[17:30:10] sevenov: даже без варнингов
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[17:33:10] xa4a_: mishok13: инвайты у меня есть. мне бы ссылку уже готовую
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[17:41:30] tilarids: sevenov: ты из С++ конфы это вычитал сейчас?
[17:41:35] tilarids: если да, то там же ниже объясняли
[17:41:56] sevenov: tilarids, не, на a-t@ вбросили, я попробовал - действительно так.
[17:42:50] tilarids: sevenov: параметры компиляции выставь другие, будет ворнинг по поводу использования неинициализированной переменной
[17:42:59] tilarids: должен быть :)
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[17:44:06] sevenov: понятно.
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[17:45:42] tilarids: гм, хотя вот у меня gcc с -pedantic не ругается. как говорит мой коллега, "fucking strange"
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[17:46:42] sevenov: да, не ругается
[17:46:47] sevenov: чяднт? оо
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[17:49:00] tilarids: sevenov: ты юзаешь gcc
[17:49:09] tilarids: проверил в msvc - пишет ворнинг
[17:49:14] tilarids: комплит fail
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[17:50:21] sevenov: хм, msvc значит более превереда.
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[17:52:11] tilarids: так это ж кул :)
[17:52:21] tilarids: ну, в смысле, msvc - молодец
[17:52:34] tilarids: а gcc - унылая студенческая поделка
[17:52:41] sevenov: точно
[17:52:55] sevenov: эти линуксы пишут студенты недоучки
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[17:53:49] mishok13: ваще
[17:54:10] mishok13: настоящий научный потенциал -- это BSD, а не этот ваш лялих
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[17:55:18] sevenov: Эти ваши бсд тоже студенческое дерьмецо. Вот Solaris кагбэ крупная шаражка пишет.
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[17:57:23] tilarids: sevenov: windows надо было прославлять
[17:57:26] mishok13: HP-UX уже давно доказал, что Solaris это не более чем попытка мелкой компании сделать первый шаг в индустрии. Как бы не называли эту систему, она является идеалом развития Юникса, в отличии от. То, что система больше не развивается, лишь доказывает ее идеальность.
[17:57:30] tilarids: а ты - солярис, солярис
[17:57:56] sevenov: tilarids, ну это само собой как-то.
[17:58:34] tilarids: btw, все уже обсудили, что Go - медленное поделие, а Stackless Python рулит?
[17:58:47] sevenov: да-да, боян же.
[17:59:03] tilarids: хм, я сегодня много работал :)
[17:59:07] tilarids: и вчера, видимо тоже
[17:59:22] sevenov: Ну это где-то позавчера вроде бы было )
[17:59:32] sevenov: а, стоп. Это же не тут было %))
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[18:00:03] sevenov: tilarids, ты про http://www.dalkescientific.com/writings/diary/archive/2009/11/15/100000_tasklets.html ?
[18:00:18] tilarids: sevenov: да
[18:00:36] sevenov: ну вот, числа 16-го и обсуждали :)
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[18:01:37] Typhon: http://entitycrisis.blogspot.com/2009/11/go-vs-stackless.html а тут с фиброй сравнили :)
[18:02:19] sevenov: Typhon, нашли с чем сравнивать о_О
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[18:12:02] mishok13: еще бы с твистедом сравнили
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[18:12:07] mishok13: вот смеху было бы :)
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[18:14:58] sevenov: один хер, сравнение велосипеда с помидором.
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[18:15:09] feedbot: команда питон-программистов (удаленно) http://is.gd/4YSms (python.su)
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[18:16:32] sevenov: Ололо, а где контакты? :D
[18:17:05] sevenov: Кстати, в HH нужны питон девелоперы, они там стеклесс вроде юзают
[18:17:17] sevenov: HH -- HeadHunter
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[18:20:44] wonderfulll: что лучше для Мускула много коротких запроса (в общей сумме делает быстрее) или один большой
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[20:38:29] klichuk: тут есть какието веб-дизайнеры?
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[20:39:42] sevenov: какието нет
[20:40:01] klichuk: а хорошие дизайнеры есть?
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[20:40:33] sevenov: klichuk, ты спрашивай, можт кто найдется. Или знакомые дизайнеры у кого нибудь найдутся.
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[20:40:52] ilnur.soft is now люблю свою девочку!!!
мой микроблог http://juick.com/ilnursoft@jabber.ru/
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[20:43:52] klichuk: да у меня не конкретный вопрос, надо совет, есть сайт у меня, нужно спросить чисто естетический вопрос, http://klichukb.webfactional.com/,
сайт-галлерея одной пекарни, сверху много тотров на фоне, стоит ли их прекрить какойто сепией или какимто кремовым оттенком, ато с оддной стороны четко и разноцветно, но с другой, слишком замусорено разноцветностью, а тай какая то сепия их не так в глаза бросаться
[20:44:06] klichuk: *тортов
[20:45:24] XIT is now dnd
[20:45:58] bobry: смотрится честно говоря не очень
[20:46:20] bobry: что то из начала 2000х
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[20:47:33] klichuk: ето какбы тортовня, там не очень пахнет какимто модерном, новизной, больше вкус, цвета
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[20:48:09] sevenov: klichuk, эээ, не очень :/
[20:48:32] klichuk: спасибо за оценку
[20:49:04] bobry: klichuk, не хочешь сделать фон белым, а ссылки просто какими нить теплыми оттенками желтого вместо этой позолоты
[20:49:19] bobry: тортик можно сиволический изобразить
[20:49:24] bobry: или обязательно фото?
[20:49:33] sevenov: вёрстка ужаааасна...
[20:49:43] sevenov: она эпична
[20:49:44] bobry: sevenov, вай?
[20:49:49] sevenov: народ.ру не доремлет
[20:49:54] sevenov: *не дремлет
[20:50:07] klichuk: sevenov: почему?
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[20:52:06] sevenov: klichuk, гибридная какая-то. Табличная.
>xml:lang="en"
>XHTML 1.0
xml:lang используется только при xhtml1.1
[20:52:26] klichuk: спасибо
[20:52:27] sevenov: > style="width: 340px; float: left;"
Это вообще блевота
[20:52:47] sevenov: зачем css, если и так везде style?
[20:52:58] sevenov: верстка крайне не семантичная
[20:53:18] klichuk: ну он далеко не везде, его мало, 90% в css
[20:53:28] sevenov: >font-family: Tahoma;
И что мне делать, если у меня нет Tahoma?
[20:53:37] _lorien: да, style это быдло style :-)
[20:53:43] _lorien: sevenov, убейся :D
[20:53:55] klichuk: да пусть говорит, мне же лучше
[20:54:02] _lorien: гм, да я что против
[20:54:03] sevenov: _lorien, чо те?
[20:54:09] _lorien: да шучу, я блин
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[20:54:14] sevenov: _lorien, я советы даю =P
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[20:54:26] XIT is now dnd
[20:54:31] _lorien: эх, вы, не поняли тонкого быдлоюмора :D
[20:54:35] klichuk: sevenov: что еще? говори всё, что не нравится
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[20:55:03] sevenov: var imageSources = new Array();
imageSources[0] = '/static/images/Baumkuchen.jpg';
...
это динамически генерируется?
[20:55:05] _lorien: можно debug отключитьтам например )
[20:55:15] klichuk: ну ето тестовый сайт
[20:55:21] klichuk: да, динамически
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[20:55:37] sevenov: ну тогда ладно
[20:55:44] _lorien: странный цвет подсветки у кнопок в меню - зелёный, странное сочетание торты и зелёный цвет
[20:55:58] _lorien: а, типа цвет названия
[20:56:07] klichuk: только изза етого..
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[20:56:10] sevenov: вот выпилить таблицы и будет годно
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[20:56:32] XIT is now dnd
[20:56:33] klichuk: почему :), я их допилил
[20:56:34] _lorien: <title>London Finecrown patisserie</title>
<head>
ыыы
[20:56:36] klichuk: зря видимо
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[20:56:55] sevenov: klichuk, выпилить -- вынести нахер.
[20:56:59] klichuk: я поняв
[20:57:02] klichuk: *понял
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[20:57:50] _lorien: функции js можно вынести в отдельный файл
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[20:58:30] _lorien: а ещё вместо id лучше юзать class, имхо
[20:58:37] _lorien: я не знаю, как это объяснить по правильному )
[20:58:39] klichuk: где? все что мог - вынес, остальное на ходу встраиваеться
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[20:59:03] klichuk: там большинство елементов уникальные, какбы их стили больше нигде не юзаются
[20:59:06] sevenov: _lorien, эээ?
[20:59:12] _lorien: function swapSlide(imageId, speed) {
....
}
ну вот это
[20:59:20] _lorien: статическая функция, зачем она в html?
[20:59:28] _lorien: я не про уникальность говорю, а вообще про подход
[20:59:34] sevenov: id используется, допустим, для логического разделения блоков типа header, footer
[20:59:57] _lorien: sevenov, а class не используется для логического разделения?
[21:00:24] _lorien: <font style="color: #c00; font-weight: bold">Europe</font>
блюэ, ещё и font вдобавок к style )
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[21:00:49] klichuk: да на ето не смотри, тут текст просто забит
[21:00:52] sevenov: _lorien, class - обстрактная вещь, используется в, хм, допустим class="post" и список их, но они все находодятся в контейнере id="posts"
[21:01:02] slav0nic is now online
[21:01:02] sevenov: *аб
[21:01:15] _lorien: а что мешает написать class="posts" чем это хуже?
[21:01:28] огыешсук is now online
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[21:01:41] klichuk: ну если он один, то можно и айди, при том етот стиль больше нигде не будет использоватся
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[21:01:51] _lorien: я понимаю что можно
[21:02:10] _lorien: я говорю, что я везде юзаю class, а севенов грит, что там лучше id, я спрашиваю, почему
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[21:02:21] sevenov: _lorien, семантика
[21:02:33] sevenov: просто логично
[21:02:46] _lorien: я и спрашиваю, в чём логика, блин )
[21:02:56] _lorien: логика - это субъективная мера зачастую
[21:03:06] klichuk: ну айди, уникальность, неповторимость стиля данного елемента
[21:03:40] sevenov: >[10:01:35 PM] sevenov: _lorien, семантика
СЕМАНТИКА, БЛЯ
[21:04:01] klichuk: не неповторимость, вернее принадлежность даннного стиля только одному елементу
[21:04:09] _lorien: семантика, семантика, не знаю, я что это
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[21:04:26] _lorien: простите, а кого ебёт, что этот стиль только этому классу принадлежит? )
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[21:05:52] sevenov: _lorien, как в программировании есть быдлокодеры, так и в вёрстке. В таком случае, твоя вёрстка выглядит примерно так: http://code.google.com/p/isida/source/browse/trunk/isida.py
[21:05:57] _lorien: СЕМАНТИКА, в широком смысле слова - анализ отношения между языковыми выражениями и миром, реальным или воображаемым, а также само это отношение (ср. выражение типа семантика слова) и совокупность таких отношений.
ну вот я и спрашиваю, что такое семантика, судя по определению семантики, отвечать, что использование id вместо class - это семантика, это значит, что ничего не отвечать.
[21:06:16] Большой Лис is now online
[21:06:19] _lorien: sevenov, ну это громкие слова просто :)
[21:06:24] sevenov: Семантика - в программировании - система правил истолкования отдельных языковых конструкций. Семантика определяет смысловое значение предложений алгоритмического языка.
[21:06:43] _lorien: ну вот, в том и вопрос, чем смысл id="posts" отличается от class="posts"
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[21:06:58] sevenov: ААААА
[21:07:03] sevenov: /me ушел за сигаретами
[21:07:16] _lorien: нда, диалога не получилось :)
[21:07:57] sevenov: _lorien, да бля, это же уже критичный уровень упёр^Wупоротости.
[21:08:30] _lorien: ну сделай одолжение, снизойди да упоротых )
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[21:15:54] sevenov: _lorien, ок. Есть два контейнера: last10, который обновляется асинхронно (аякс) и top10.
<div id="last10">...</div>
<div id="top10">...</div>
В каждом из них есть список из постов:
<p class="post">...</p>
<p class="post">...</p>
...
Тебе жабаскриптом нужно забирать все элементы с классом .post, но только из контейнера last10. Что ты делаешь? getElementById('last10'); и дальше уже забираешь все элементы с class=post.
Ну вот как-то так тебе теперь понятно для чего это логическое разделение?
[21:16:10] sevenov: про жабаскрипт в общем-то не обязательно даже
[21:16:25] sevenov: Просто достаточно:
<div id="last10">...</div>
<div id="top10">...</div>
В каждом из них есть список из постов:
<p class="post">...</p>
<p class="post">...</p>
...
[21:16:27] _lorien: c js это очевидно, НО
[21:16:45] erraen is now online
[21:16:47] sevenov: _lorien, ты же не пишешь по классу для каждого объекта?
[21:16:48] _lorien: для того чтобы забирать из одного контейнера, я делаю ему уникальный id и всё, необязательно на него стили завязывать!
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[21:17:12] sevenov: Ну а кто говорил, что для него нужно завязывать стиль?
[21:17:17] sevenov: я говорил о разделении
[21:17:36] sevenov: ну вот #header и #footer явно отличаются. Что делать?
[21:17:37] огыешсук: /me юзает class для стилей и id для адресации, точка
[21:18:19] _lorien: я вот что хочу сказать
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[21:19:03] _lorien: разделение для логики это круто, но я не вижу смысла разделять сразу :) Например голова документа, на кой ляд ей делать id="head", если можно class="head" всё равно:
а) head один
b) у нас пока никто не юзает эту head )
[21:19:17] _lorien: кстати да
[21:19:28] _lorien: <div id="head" class="head"> кошерно
[21:19:35] _lorien: а, я сформулировал!
[21:19:59] _lorien: в вышеприведённой вёрстке есть id, но не продублирован классом, а значит, скорее всего на id наляпаны стили, а это мне не нравится
[21:20:11] _lorien: потому что вроде как id заявлен для логики, а ляпаются на него стили!
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[21:21:00] Ляпатяпа: если без разницы что делать - для дизайна используются классы
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[21:21:10] Ляпатяпа: для жабаскрипта - что кошерней
[21:21:13] Ляпатяпа: в данный момент
[21:21:18] sevenov: _lorien, ну все верно. Есть вот эти два контейнера с классом blog-posts с id=last10 и top10
[21:21:19] Ляпатяпа: скорее айди
[21:21:26] sevenov: допустим
[21:21:45] erraen is now online
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[21:21:57] Ляпатяпа: > isida
о боже, 8 пробелов
[21:21:58] _lorien: для жс классы по любому имеют место быть, хотя бы для итерации по однотипным блокам
[21:22:15] огыешсук: <div id="post_{{ post.id }}" class="post"> ... </div>!
[21:22:27] klichuk: ладно, спасибо всем, буду исправлятся
[21:23:01] klichuk: *исправляться
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[21:23:36] _lorien: #head {
height:173px;
}
короче я про это, у меня бы это было .head, и так для всех блоков в той вёрстке )
[21:23:45] PC is now Аська сцуко глючит. Мой Jabber/GTalk: pc@jabber.gafol.net
[21:24:14] _lorien: а для js прикольно сделать id="head" я как-то не думал об этом, у меня до этого js тоже с class обычно работал
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[21:25:37] огыешсук: /me не видит особо принципиальной разницы между $('tag.class') и $('tag#id). Вероятно второй вариант шибко быстрее, но нам вряд ли wave писать каждый раз приходится.
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[21:28:08] Ляпатяпа: $('tag#id') зачем? вот для классов тег лучше указывать, для адишек не нужно
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[21:28:35] огыешсук: на всякий случай и для унификации
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[21:32:03] ilnur.soft is now люблю свою девочку!!!
мой микроблог http://juick.com/ilnursoft@jabber.ru/
[21:34:25] огыешсук: Скажем, на pagemon.net я гружу в своё окружение чужие страницы. При этом, мне нужно сопоставить каждому элементу страницы его xpath. Я и записываю оный xpath в id параметре каждого элемента. Если кто-то шибко релаился в своих стилях на id, его страница после обработки будет кривой. К счастью, таких относительно немного.
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[21:37:58] klichuk: смотрю всякие верстки, понимаю, что моя верстка не настолько уж и ужасна, пару сайтов проглядел, много где таблична верстка, и быдлостили (style="...")
[21:38:20] огыешсук: табличная вёрстка это зло!
[21:38:34] klichuk: ладно, убедили
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[21:39:29] klichuk: только непонимаю почему
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[21:40:02] klichuk: нашел статейку, почитаю
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[21:41:23] RaD: а не вываливай в таблицу мегабайты и всё будет хорошо
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[21:42:10] klichuk: я пользуюсь ею только чтоб базовый каркас создать, весь динамический контент в диве позиционируется цссом
[21:42:11] огыешсук: потому, что вёрстка таблицами несемантична
[21:42:36] огыешсук: а семантика -- один из наших младших богов
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[22:00:05] ilnur.soft is now люблю свою девочку!!!
мой микроблог http://juick.com/ilnursoft@jabber.ru/
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[22:13:38] mazvv: люди кто-нить встречал готовые датагриды для Pylons?
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[22:58:22] kwis: ребят проконсультируйте плиз, есть поле FloatField, оно по задумке иногда должно быть пустым, стоит blank=True, null=True почему когда сохраняю в админке выпадает ошибка IntegrityError hosting_vat may not be NUL???
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[23:06:23] RaD: дропни таблицу и syncdb
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[23:43:20] kwis: RaD, пепец... правду говорят - ночью надо спать
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