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[08:01:13] xa4a: !мщjщшсу ksvab
[08:01:21] xa4a: !voice jksvab
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[08:12:51] _lorien: http://dolboeb.livejournal.com/1939795.html
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[09:54:21] mishok13: webmoneygate
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[10:17:38] deepwalker: поставил новый psycopg2, и поймал сегфолтов
[10:19:51] MAVr is now Да, я тут
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[10:26:41] deepwalker: поставил вместо 2.3.1 - 2.2.1
[10:26:47] deepwalker: в нем сегфолтов нету
[10:27:10] erraen is now online
[10:27:18] denger_work: я не помню, может тоже с этим встречался
[10:27:24] denger_work: а может с другой либой
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[10:35:44] deepwalker: ask, который celery, по-моему не вполне нормален
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[10:36:31] deepwalker: был у него удобный carrot, но он теперь советует использовать kombu, который по синтаксису как-то от amqplib не отличается
[10:36:39] deepwalker: бррр
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[11:26:16] mishok13: чото эти futures мне как-то не очень нравятся
[11:26:21] mishok13: слишком они какие-то ограниченные
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[11:34:43] deepwalker: ты про что?
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[11:42:52] mishok13: deepwalker, http://docs.python.org/dev/py3k/library/concurrent.futures.html
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[11:47:18] deepwalker: хухня какая-то
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[12:07:52] mishok13: piranha, ты чо злой такой
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[12:16:36] deepwalker: у него прикольный пупер проект : )
[12:16:50] deepwalker: который писали три поколения голландских узбеков
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[12:43:23] mishok13: http://blog.bitbucket.org/2010/12/15/pypy-on-bitbucket/
[12:43:24] mishok13: адпизды
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[12:45:44] nmk: а где можно почитать как сравниваются mapping objects? дикты, например.
[12:45:58] mishok13: dictobject.c
[12:46:20] nmk: попроще нет? :)
[12:46:40] nmk: я мало чего понял там. хотя не очень и старался
[12:46:43] Ляпатяпа: кажись в справочнике по пятону было на русском
[12:47:10] Ляпатяпа: или тебе нужен сам алгоритм?
[12:47:15] erraen is now online
[12:47:27] nmk: не. мне в двух словах.
[12:47:59] nmk: типа как в Built-in Types написано про листы
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[12:49:02] mishok13: сравнить длину, если одинаковая, сравнивать каждую пару key, value
[12:49:11] mishok13: тут как-то особой магии нету
[12:50:05] nmk: так а вот каждая пара как сравнивается? как is или как == ?
[12:50:11] MAVr is now away
[12:50:24] nmk: ну, т.е. по ссылке или по значению
[12:50:31] nmk: а. вижу. PyObject_Compare
[12:50:44] mishok13: PyObject_RichCompareBool
[12:50:54] mishok13: судя по транку
[12:51:26] nmk: ты смотришь dict_compare?
[12:51:36] mishok13: да
[12:51:43] mishok13: там есть вызов characterize
[12:51:52] mishok13: которая и сравнивает, собственно
[12:52:00] nmk: вот я его не понимаю
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[12:52:23] nmk: а. все. догнал.
[12:52:27] nmk: спасибо. :)
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[12:59:56] piranha: что в питоне - файл?
[13:00:06] piranha: .read() и шо?
[13:01:27] nmk: мож как stringio сделать?
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[13:02:01] MAVr is now Да, я тут
[13:02:02] mishok13: next и readlines формально должны быть
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[13:52:40] Ляпатяпа: есть команда обратная qnew?
[13:52:44] Ляпатяпа: когда снимается mq коммит, а рабочая копия не меняется
[13:52:47] deepwalker: Кстати, кто считает, что не стоит вызывать методы орма напрямую во вьюхах?
[13:52:48] Ляпатяпа: надо пару изменений из патча отдельными коммитами провести
[13:53:09] Ляпатяпа: deepwalker: в зависимости от размера проекта
[13:53:16] Ляпатяпа: я считаю что можно и нужно
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[13:54:59] deepwalker: можно и нужно что? : )
[13:55:09] deepwalker: вызывать орм во вьюхах, или выносить?
[13:55:10] Ляпатяпа: вызывать методы орма
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[13:56:04] nmk: Ляпатяпа: qpop?
[13:56:12] nmk: или именно снимается qrefresh?
[13:56:18] Ляпатяпа: ненене
[13:56:32] Ляпатяпа: qpop обновит рабочую копию до состояния до патча
[13:56:34] Ляпатяпа: а мне это не надо
[13:56:47] Ляпатяпа: я хочу чтобы патч пропал и закоммить его как обычно
[13:56:53] Ляпатяпа: а не через qfinish
[13:57:04] Ляпатяпа: только разбираюсь с mq
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[13:57:49] nmk: а какая разница, через qfinish или нет?
[13:58:06] Ляпатяпа: ну после qrefresh hg status ничего не показывает
[13:58:29] nmk: ну все в патче значит
[13:58:35] Ляпатяпа: ну я хочу убрать патч
[13:58:40] nmk: чем тебя qfinish не устраивает?
[13:58:55] Ляпатяпа: хочу сделать три коммита из одного патча
[13:59:01] serg.makar is now online
[13:59:06] nmk: а..
[13:59:30] xa4a: deepwalker: щито?
[13:59:38] xa4a: а откуда вызывать методы орма?
[13:59:45] nmk: Ляпатяпа: разобрать патч руками на несколько патчей? :)
[13:59:46] xa4a: из темплейттегов же!
[13:59:51] deepwalker: делать методами модели
[13:59:57] nmk: Ляпатяпа: только не забыть их в series прописать
[14:00:00] deepwalker: а напрямую орм не дергать
[14:00:29] xa4a: кажется, у тебя странная терминология
[14:00:37] undefined is now offline
[14:00:38] undefined is now online
[14:00:44] xa4a: хм. или ты предлагаешь смержить менеджера с моделью?
[14:01:07] Ляпатяпа: всем пока
[14:01:10] xa4a: Artcle.objects.all() -> Artcle.all()?
[14:01:14] Ляпатяпа: я с работы ушел
[14:01:17] deepwalker: та нет, я предлагаю не дергать менеджера руками, а только опосредованно, через методы модели
[14:01:23] Ляпатяпа is now offline
[14:01:30] deepwalker: all() только если он нужен будет
[14:01:44] xa4a: профит?
[14:01:56] deepwalker: хм, не, я гонщик
[14:02:13] deepwalker: да это так, мысли - про поект, в котором работаю
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[14:02:29] gigimon is now Прямо сейчас меня здесь нет
[14:02:29] xa4a: (я профита особого не вижу)
[14:02:35] deepwalker: сразу крутая БД с шардами, и вот не проще ли было довести до рабочего состояния без
[14:03:14] xa4a: пофикси менеджер
[14:03:17] deepwalker: ну типа не objects.filter().filter().order().values(), а Article.objects.get_right_article()
[14:03:22] xa4a: если я понимаю о чём ты
[14:03:22] deepwalker: ага
[14:03:25] deepwalker: я понял
[14:03:38] deepwalker: я просто про менджер что-то пропустил : )
[14:03:39] xa4a: свои менеджеры - это ок
[14:04:02] serg.makar is now online
[14:04:20] deepwalker: да, tnx, просветлело в голове : )
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[14:10:36] undefined is now chat
[14:11:30] undefined is now добавьте в конференцию, пожалуйста
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[14:13:22] _lorien: в большом проекте получится куча всяких методов странных
[14:13:51] undefined is now online
[14:13:58] _lorien: Article.objects.get_right_articles(), Article.objects.get_right_articles_sorted_by_author_name_in_descending_order и т.д. :)
[14:14:02] serg.makar is now online
[14:14:10] undefined is now python@conference.jabber.ru
добавьте в конференцию, пожалуйста
[14:14:27] _lorien: Блин, пришёл машину смотреть, а она не заводицццо, с осени стояла и там окислились клемы :(
[14:14:44] deepwalker: хочешь лучше мимикрировать потом под джанго орм?
[14:15:06] deepwalker: я в случае, когда известно, что планируется проект на вырост, очень большой вырост
[14:15:26] deepwalker: а пока, чтобы не голову не ломать, проще написать на джангорме
[14:15:48] deepwalker: но чтобы потом весь этот джангорм не переписывать
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[15:02:44] slav0nic: никто не в курсе как в хроме в фулскрине отобразить список табов?
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[15:06:50] wiz: никак
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[15:08:15] deepwalker: хром он вообще мнималистично убог
[15:08:58] xa4a: не, чего
[15:09:02] xa4a: он вполне полноценно убог
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[15:10:41] _lorien: хром хорош, мне нравится :)
[15:10:45] Magister Yoda is now online
[15:10:59] _lorien: тока у меня в нём флеш падает периодически - звук пропадает, pkill -9 chrome помогает :)
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[15:15:11] gf: я один вместо хрома хромиум юзаю?
[15:15:48] cutwater: /me пользуется FF и с недоумением смотрит на всех пользователей хрома
[15:17:01] _lorien: ну я просто на нетбуке юзал хром т.к. фаер там тупил, а потом втянулся и понял, что хром удобная штука :)
[15:17:12] _lorien: мне у него нравится синхронизация закладок из коробки
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[15:17:31] _lorien: ну и егоные средства для отладки меня полностью удовлетворили и работаю быстрее чем в ff
[15:17:46] gf: cutwater ну я тоже фф юзаю.. но только из-за файрбага.. ибо в хромиуме лайт не торт..
[15:18:04] cutwater: /me еще из-за древовидных вкладок
[15:18:18] cutwater: /me не понимает как можно пользоваться убогими горизонтальными вкладками.
[15:18:47] gf: _lorien не понимаю как можно юзать отладку в хроме..
[15:19:03] gf: т.е. я вообще подхода непонимаю..
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[15:19:16] _lorien: что за отладка, что ты подразумеваешь?
[15:19:18] gf: хотя может это я религию менять не хочу..
[15:19:22] _lorien: javascript дебагер?
[15:19:33] gf: ну да.. не?
[15:19:42] _lorien: Хз, я так скрипты не отлаживаю :)
[15:19:44] огыешсук: firebug куда как лучше того убожества что в хроме
[15:19:45] deepwalker: _lorien, если падает флеш, убей его
[15:19:50] огыешсук: и это странно
[15:19:53] gf: огыешсук +1
[15:19:54] deepwalker: shift+esc по моему
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[15:26:51] gf: deepwalker я убиваю флеш через htop: сортирую процессы по степени нагрузки на процессор, и если завис флеш, то он, как правило, в первой строчке..
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[15:28:07] gf: + этого подхода: хромиум при убийстве флеша сидит смирно, и только на страничке вместо флеша выдает картику: флеш мертв..
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[15:29:52] deepwalker: это ж изврат
[15:30:02] deepwalker: хромиум сам вполне умеет
[15:30:12] deepwalker: нажмите срочно все shift-esc
[15:30:39] _lorien: хм
[15:30:53] _lorien: а визуально что-то должно быть после shift+esc?
[15:32:07] _lorien: А чем хромимум от хрома отличается?
[15:32:21] xa4a: это такой вимператор
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[15:32:47] xa4a: а точнее уже пентадактиль
[15:33:11] gf: _lorien хром закрытый проект, а хромиум открытый..
[15:33:17] deepwalker: таск манагер должен появиться
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[15:33:35] _lorien: о, появился, плохо нажимал, видимо
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[15:33:42] gf: т.е. хромиум на основе хрома сделан, но в хроме всякие яйца запрятаны..
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[15:34:40] _lorien: а, мне пофиг, что адреса порносайтов и моей кредитки куда-то отсылаются - всё равно там бабла мало :)
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[15:36:07] gf: _lorien а у меня выбор небольшой.. ибо в Альте только хромиум изкаропки.. :)
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[15:37:32] _lorien: я для хрома тоже вроде отдельную репу гуглёвую подключил в дебилиане
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[18:59:24] Typhon is now dnd
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[19:02:22] Typhon: оч. часто нужны что-то типа рекордов в питоне. есть namedtuple, но они немутабельные, а нужно аттрибуты уметь менять. писать тупой класс с пятью аттрибутами бесит. што вы используете в таком случае? или не выебываетесь и пользуете dict'ы? (я хочу через точку обращаться. эстет.) (я свалю ща, ответы прочту. честно!) спасибки! ^_^
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[19:08:30] tilarids: можно написать свой namedtuple
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[19:10:28] xa4a: можно написать свой dict
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[19:12:17] Tony: я юзаю dict с доступом к ключам по аттрибутам
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[19:24:55] deepwalker: этот дикт потом копировать везде
[19:25:12] Tony: в каком смысле копировать?
[19:25:29] Tony: он у меня кстати для enum в моделях choices используется. очень удобно.
[19:26:33] _lorien: http://hg.lorien.name/django-common/src/2f781e588cfa/common/enum.py я такое юзаю
[19:26:39] deepwalker: ну ты же его сам реализовал?
[19:26:53] deepwalker: значит его надо таскать за проектом
[19:27:11] deepwalker: если ты его спиклил, то на том конце он тоже нужен будет
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[19:27:17] deepwalker: чтобы распиклить
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[19:29:11] piranha is now I don't smile for pictures. I smile because it rocks.
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[19:31:27] _lorien: > значит его надо таскать за проектом
какой ужас :)
[19:32:07] _lorien: исходный код проекта тоже надо таскать за проектом :D
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[19:37:11] Tony: +1
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[19:37:51] Tony: у меня тут один знакомый все жалуется что jinja2 и bottle можно таскать вместе с проектом, а PIL нельзя.
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[19:55:34] deepwalker: гон же
[19:55:36] deepwalker: pip install
[19:55:54] deepwalker: может забацаем свои коллекции?
[19:56:09] deepwalker: и выложить их, чтобы тоже можно было pip
[19:56:54] _lorien: ну как бы выше по ссылке коллекции, которые можно pip :)
[19:57:01] _lorien: но они джанго-специфичны
[19:57:24] Tony: в twisted тоже своих коллекций полно
[19:57:29] Tony: в том числе и асинхронные
[19:57:46] Tony: [23:54:23] deepwalker: pip install # buildout ;)
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[19:58:13] piranha: buildout is gay
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[20:26:22] Typhon: вообщем, походу лучше не выебываться, а юзать дикт! так-то! 15/89! %)
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[20:27:35] piranha: 14/88
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[20:28:13] _lorien: чо это?
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[20:31:50] piranha: http://reia-lang.org/
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[20:32:27] _lorien: This Gist brought to you by GitHub. прочитал как glist и удивился
[20:32:42] _lorien: Этот глист подарен вам гитхабом.
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[20:35:42] Typhon: reia вроде старая. и раньше он был python-like, емнип
[20:36:02] piranha: Typhon: не, раньше он был посредине, и сча посредине
[20:36:15] piranha: и да, она не новая, но он до сих пор еë пилит и выглядит ок
[20:36:20] Typhon: ну во всяком случае позиционировали они себя как питон под beam
[20:36:30] Typhon: сейчас ребрендинг видимо сделали :)
[20:36:32] Typhon: по моде, чо!
[20:36:34] piranha: не, всегда говорил, что python/ruby like
[20:36:42] piranha: но шо клëво - коллейблы как в питоне
[20:36:43] Typhon: хм, значит у меня так отложилось :)
[20:36:45] piranha: а не как в руби это
[20:36:53] Typhon: всегда скобки, смысле?
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[20:38:03] piranha: да
[20:38:15] piranha: ну в смысле в руби чтоб получить метод, ты делаешь .method(:name)
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[20:38:30] piranha: и чтоб вызвать потом его, ты не скобки добавляешь, а вызываешь у него .call()
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[20:39:40] Typhon: ну это же форменное ебанатство!
[20:40:10] piranha: Typhon: well, я тоже так думаю, но серьëзно можно посмотреть с другой стороны - питон весь построен вокруг коллейблов, а руби - вокруг объектов
[20:40:13] piranha: [n * 2 for n in 1..10, n % 2 == 1] # List comprehension of a range, returns [2,4,6,8,10]

[20:40:20] piranha: не выглядит как руби, а?
[20:40:48] Typhon: как хаскиль выглядит %)
[20:40:53] piranha: как питон, чо как хаскиль?
[20:40:58] piranha: if заменили на запятую тока
[20:41:01] Typhon: "питон весь построен вокруг коллейблов" -- аргументируй
[20:41:10] piranha: лень
[20:41:13] Typhon: :-)
[20:41:17] piranha: мне тоже кажется, что .call - херня
[20:41:31] piranha: я имею в виду, что попробуй взглянуть на это с другой стороны
[20:41:34] Typhon: ну и питоновские lc похожи на хаскилевские, это да
[20:41:53] piranha: Typhon: например взгляни со стороны того, что в руби есть охеренные анонимные функции, а в питоне - болт!
[20:41:54] piranha: :(
[20:42:17] Typhon: я вроде не особо страдают от их отсутсвия :-)
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[21:00:40] _lorien: http://www.humblebundle.com/ блин, не могу это купить по пайонеровской карте
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[21:14:45] огыешсук: привяжи её к пайпалу
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[21:17:25] piranha: !voice jksvab
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[21:21:06] jksvab: Всем привет.Подкиньте плз пару задач для новичка в пайтоне
[21:21:15] wiz: jksvab, quicksort напиши
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[21:21:26] wiz: и юниттесты к нему
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[21:23:22] Typhon: это на 10 минут задача %)
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[21:23:41] wiz: ну это смотря какой новичок
[21:23:52] jksvab: а еще что есть)?
[21:23:53] wiz: у меня матёрые плюсисты-жависты целый день угробили на это
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[21:23:56] piranha: jksvab: projecteuler.net
[21:24:14] Typhon: еще вот из недавнего: http://www.checkio.org/
[21:24:21] piranha: wiz: по-моему, нормально. Ну, может не день, но за 10 минут редко кто напишет, если только вчера писал.
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[21:25:25] piranha: Typhon: у нас на собеседовании была задача - как отсортировать массив булеанов на питоне длиной больше половины памяти. Меньше получаса не вышло ни у кого - это сначала раздуплиться, потом написать. Причëм бывало, что раздуплялись за 10 минут, но 15-20 минут на код уходит в любом случае у всех =)
[21:25:55] Typhon: :-) можт волнуются?
[21:25:59] piranha: впрочем, я вру, потому что сначала еë проверили на мне, и всë завершил минут за 10, меньше даже, но я был не на собеседовании
[21:26:07] piranha: может, но как ты объяснишь полтора часа?
[21:26:09] piranha: волнением?
[21:26:21] piranha: может, впрочем, это тупые были, но квиксорт всë равно сложнее намного
[21:26:57] wiz: jksvab, таки попробуй квиксорт+тесты, выложи код и мы тебя тут по нему отпинаем ещё на два часа допиливания (=
[21:27:21] wiz: там же ещё всякие pylint, pep8 потом начинаются
[21:27:23] piranha: jksvab: да, квиксорт - это новый хелло ворлд :)) Ну и проект эйлер хорош для раздупления синтаксиса
[21:27:34] jksvab: мне бы практического плана
[21:27:40] wiz: это практического и ест
[21:27:46] jksvab: бота для твиттера или типа того
[21:27:52] wiz: гыгы
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[21:29:16] wiz: ну напиши бота для твитера, который квиксортом сортирует фоловеров
[21:29:20] Typhon: написал квиксорт (втупую)
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[21:29:24] Typhon: меньше 2 минут.
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[21:29:27] Typhon: а то и меньше
[21:29:36] Typhon: (без тестов :) )
[21:29:39] wiz: Typhon, крут. я вспоминать то буду о чём речь полчаса ещё
[21:30:06] wiz: Typhon, теперь тесты, линт, пеп8, закомить куда-нибудь и выложи на pypi
[21:30:18] Typhon: :D
[21:30:31] Typhon: думаю, уже есть
[21:30:40] wiz: а то блять понапишут вечно ботов, а там внутрях такая неонка аш плакать хочется глядя в код
[21:30:51] wiz: зато ниибаца практично
[21:30:54] jksvab: а кто-нить приложения для нокии пишет из здесь присутствующих?
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[21:32:39] tilarids: /me когда-то писал, сейчас сия участь далека от меня
[21:32:49] Typhon: http://friendfeed.com/squadette/b04076ce/3-0 -- вот про задачи забавное
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[21:33:02] Typhon: и там полторы задачи есть, которые попинать можно
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[21:35:34] piranha: фух, наконец я разобрался с бекбоном
[21:35:41] piranha: ура
[21:35:42] piranha: крутая штука
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[21:38:40] wiz: урл?
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[21:41:01] piranha: http://documentcloud.github.com/backbone/
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[21:49:28] wiz: аа
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[21:56:11] deepwalker: чего все с этой нокией допотопной все носятся
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[21:56:45] deepwalker: у меня в телефоне нормальный 2.6.2 стоит
[21:56:56] deepwalker: а там неведомая хухня
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[22:12:22] piranha: !voice ajax26@jabber.ru
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[22:16:30] Соник: у кого есть скайп? у меня много вопросов по Python. нужен помощник сделать программу
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[22:18:00] Typhon: у меня ещё есть яндекс.деньги
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[22:49:51] deepwalker: Соник, задай их для начала какой-нибудь книжке
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