[00:00:12] gigimon: Typhon: а у тебя как опыт с тosql?
[00:00:13] xa4a: Typhon: не убивал
[00:00:25] Typhon: xa4a, не пашут, что-то или очень долго
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[00:00:43] gigimon: адиум гавно блин
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[00:00:50] nwalker: таки ну дерева между ветвями связей нет.
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[00:00:52] xa4a: апатч тупит
[00:01:00] xa4a: есть такая штука, как Graph databases
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[00:01:03] Typhon: gigimon, у меня редис работает и ок :-) а, ещё berkley db использовался довольно много -- тоже nosql!
[00:01:27] Typhon: xa4a, + но с ними проблемы тоже есть, пишут
[00:01:40] Typhon: gigimon, про монгу про репликацию обратное есть, была штука на гуглодоксах на эту тему, ща найду можыт
[00:01:41] xa4a: а с кем их нет)
[00:01:46] gigimon: Typhon: редис ты для важных данных хранишь, что если упадет, есть репликация у тебя?
[00:02:00] gigimon: знаю что есть append log
[00:02:05] gigimon: но как он в работе?
[00:02:09] Typhon: gigimon, нет, для неважных ^_^
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[00:02:17] Typhon: у меня редис хуёво работает
[00:02:20] gigimon: вот я тоже и как-то ссыкотно для важных)
[00:02:25] Typhon: после падения не восстанавливает
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[00:02:26] gigimon: а соц граф важное
[00:02:30] Typhon: хотя все файлы на месте
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[00:02:34] gigimon: странно
[00:02:35] Typhon: может я неправильно приготовил
[00:03:28] xa4a: Typhon: логи есть
[00:03:48] Typhon: круто, спасибо :-)
[00:05:18] gigimon: логи это хорошо
[00:05:24] gigimon: xa4a: а они кстати индексируются?
[00:05:30] gigimon: яндексом, гуглом?
[00:05:41] nwalker: редис, он хороший, но я еще понятия не имею, сколько там данных будет, даже ориентировочно. а насколько хорошо он работает с данными больше памяти - это вопрос.
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[00:05:56] Typhon: gigimon, гугл по ним ищет
[00:06:02] gigimon: это гуд
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[00:07:07] nwalker: какой страшный sql в этой презентации.
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[00:07:25] xa4a: я не представляю, что это такое. только слышал пару раз, что для соц. графов их используют)
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[00:10:16] nwalker: собственно, вопросы были больше по орм-у джанги, на самом деле... зато просветился.
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[00:11:29] Typhon: про орм сказали -- ForeignKey на себя и всё :-)
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[00:13:02] nwalker: если бы все было так просто. мне к каждой связи нужны m2m группы. с обеих сторон.
[00:13:51] nwalker: получается обычный from-to, и к нему m2m(group). до этого я додумался.
[00:14:16] nwalker: вопрос в том, как поддерживать связность данных.
[00:14:36] Typhon: зачем m2m?
[00:14:52] Typhon: связность поддерживается foreignkey'ями, ваш КО.дд
[00:15:31] Tony: ага
[00:15:36] Tony: Typhon, матчасть тока
[00:15:49] Tony: ты не пройдешься по всему дереву если через fk связь
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[00:16:02] Tony: или скажем не вычислишь всех парентов либо всех child'ов
[00:16:06] Tony: за один запрос смысле
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[00:16:10] Tony: а с m2m легко
[00:16:12] nwalker: граф неориентированый же. значит на каждый from-to должен лежать рядом обратный.
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[00:16:31] Tony: nwalker, не проще всех child/parent в m2m?
[00:16:32] nwalker: или нет?
[00:16:59] Tony: и так все дети и паренты легко будут вычисляться. sql ведь не может в рекурсивность
[00:17:03] Typhon: Tony, почему не пройдусь?
[00:17:08] Typhon: рекурсивность может
[00:17:11] Typhon: with recursive
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[00:17:24] Tony: Typhon, ты про sql?
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[00:17:58] Typhon: да
[00:18:01] nwalker: а где я сказал, что у меня child/parent? у меня "одноранговая" структура. обычная соцсеть же.
[00:18:23] Tony: Typhon, это постгри выдумка?
[00:18:27] Typhon: http://www.postgresql.org/docs/9.0/static/queries-with.html
[00:18:28] Typhon: нет
[00:18:44] Typhon: но даже если и постгре -- мы же тут про rdbms говорим, а не про телефонные книжки?
[00:19:09] Typhon: nwalker, чайлд-парент, это, видимо "на кого ссылается" -- "кто ссылается" или что-то типа
[00:19:26] gigimon: nwalker: друг-друга
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[00:19:49] Typhon: sql 2003 определяет, емнип, вохможность рекурсии
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[00:20:41] Tony: на практике кто это поддерживает?
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[00:21:22] Typhon: постгре точно
[00:21:26] Typhon: с ораклом не работал
[00:21:29] Typhon: mysql -- не база
[00:21:36] gigimon: гг
[00:21:38] Typhon: mssql поддерживает, емнип, из свежих
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[00:25:24] nwalker: gigimon: думал, да. m2m c through-моделью выглядит заманчиво. только "When defining a many-to-many relationship from a model to itself, using an intermediary model, you must use symmetrical=False" - соответственно, это это то же самое, что я тот же m2m напишу руками.
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[00:26:50] Typhon: https://docs.google.com/present/view?id=0Ab7GDIugV1qCZGR6c3d6YnJfMTA0ZjJzZ3A4ZHE&hl=en
[00:26:52] Typhon: gigimon, ^^
[00:26:55] Typhon: кажется, оно
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[00:29:28] gigimon: кхм
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[00:29:36] gigimon: ну, надо будет боле глубже почитать
[00:29:48] gigimon: т.к. хранение важных в nosql страшно пока
[00:29:52] nwalker: связи все должны быть симметричные и я в упор не понимаю, как за этим следить на одних ForeignKey-ах. собственно это и вопрос - как лучше отслеживать эту симметричность? сигналы, сигналы+on_delete, переопределять save+delete, еще как-то.
[00:29:53] gigimon: но зато легко хранить графы
[00:30:05] nwalker: в монго-то?
[00:30:18] gigimon: в nosql
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[00:31:14] gigimon: хотя, можно изъебнутся и тупо копировать инфу в sql и если nosql наебентся, достать из sql))
[00:31:31] Typhon: table1 -- nodes: id, properties.
table2 -- edges: id, from (fk table1), to (fk table2);
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[00:32:15] Typhon: from/to называются так условно, ага. просто концы edge'а
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[00:38:05] nwalker: угу. m2m заглядывая под капот.
[00:38:22] nwalker: стоп.
[00:38:41] Typhon: to (fk table1 )
[00:38:42] Typhon: там
[00:38:49] Typhon: опечатался.
[00:38:54] nwalker: =)
[00:39:51] nwalker: так и есть. в table2 есть еще какая-то инфа в записи, ради чего она и заведена.
[00:40:15] Typhon: может и не быть, если у тебя у связей нет свойств (веса, например)
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[00:41:55] nwalker: связи по условию должны быть неориентированные, соответственно в table2 на каждую связь 2 записи - (1, 2) и (2, 1).
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[00:42:49] nwalker: все понятно. вопрос примитивный и чисто технический - как отследить, чтобы всегда было либо 2 записи, либо не одной.
[00:43:01] Typhon: они итак не ориентированные. строка в table2 говорит, что между a и b есть связь
[00:43:37] Typhon: и выбирать по условию from=TARGET or to=TARGET $)
[00:43:55] Typhon: (для выборки "все, кто связан с TARGET")
[00:44:24] nwalker: угу. а если на связях должна быть разная информация для разных сторон?
[00:45:02] Typhon: смысле? информация о нодах у тебя в table1
[00:45:35] Typhon: а edge не может нести разную информацию, он тупо связь, если граф не ориентированный
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[00:49:14] nwalker: ууф. сказали делать так. есть два пользователя - друзья. для друзей есть группы, определяемые каждым конкретным пользователем, количеством *. вконтакте, фейсбук, прочие таймкиллеры - везде же уже.
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[00:52:05] Typhon: group -- id, name, owner (fk table1), props;
nodes_in_group -- id, group_id (fk group), node_id (fk table1);
ну тоесть ещё две реляции на группы
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[00:52:55] Typhon: придётся тока следить, чтобы в группе были тока те ноды, с кем связан овнер :(
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[00:57:02] nwalker: ну да. мрачно и некрасиво. и за связностью всего этого следить задолбаться можно.
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[00:59:34] Typhon: graph databases ;-)
[01:00:17] Typhon: http://www.purbon.com/docs/GraphDatabase-Features-Review_1.1.pdf
[01:00:45] Typhon: кстати, что ты подразумеваешь под "за связностью следить"?
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[01:03:39] nwalker: моя хотеть простого для начала - чтобы эджей всегда было либо 2, либо 0. без накладных расходов на проверки в идеале.
[01:05:24] Typhon: чем тебя не устраивает вариантс 1 еджем?
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[01:08:03] nwalker: ага. до меня дошло. связывать группы с нодами, а не с эджами.
[01:09:28] nwalker: слушай, а это не взорвется по объему данных?
[01:10:00] nwalker: вроде нет.
[01:10:17] nwalker: столько же примерно.
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[01:12:43] Typhon: можно с еджами связать, кстати.
[01:13:39] Typhon: также, двумя реляциями, только не nodes_in_group, а edges_in_group -- но это логически неправильно, к.м.к. -- в группах то узлы, т.е. юзеры.
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[01:27:27] nwalker: ну, мне казалось логичнее и удобнее с эджами связывать. но в твоем варианте есть определенный плюс - не нужно слежить за парами эджей, что оверхед.
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[01:35:48] gigimon: nwalker: а почему казалось что с эджами лучше было?
[01:36:03] gigimon: эдж же связь, соглашусь с Typhon что связывать с узлом логичнее
[01:36:08] gigimon: узел-человек
[01:37:13] nwalker: а набор групп - характеристика связи. плюс это не требует модификации модели нода, оно чисто "навесное".
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[01:39:17] Typhon: если в группах у тебя ноды, их тоже модифицировать не надо :-) у тебя ж группы ссылаются на овнера или контент
[01:39:38] Typhon: а, "модели" -- как там в джанге хз :-)
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[01:45:44] nwalker: а я чистый sql совсем плохо умею и стараюсь избегать поэтому. =)
[01:46:37] nwalker: и да, ведь не требует. m2m в джанге с обоих концов задается одинаково, кажется.
[01:46:40] nwalker: круто.
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[06:28:28] _lorien: в какой либе на python удобно с sax-парсингом xml работать?
[06:28:46] _lorien: т.е. есть ли что-то удобнее стандартной?
[06:31:55] _lorien: о lxml(elementtree) умеетт http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/xml/library/x-hiperfparse/
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[08:06:40] : piranha установил(а) тему: python.su | Сначала поищи ответ на docs.python.org | Теперь поищи в google.com | Код постить в dumpz.org | Хочешь задать вопрос - просто *задай* его! | Правила написания хорошего кода: http://➡.ws/pep8 | Логи: http://➡.ws/pu
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[10:08:51] slav0nic: кто-то права на svn раздавал ? там есть какой-то приоритет правил?
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[11:13:10] py_two: о, хотел спросить по такому вопросу(опять кодировки:))
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[11:13:23] py_two: есть строки юникодные:
u'\u041c\u0410\u0420\u0418\u042f'
u'\u041d\u0410\u0411\u041b\u042e\u0414\u0415\u041d\u0418\u0415'
u'INTELIMOUSE'
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[11:13:50] py_two: как видим русский каждый символ представлен в юникодном виде
[11:14:07] py_two: мне нужно поработать с текстом типа поставить букву заглавную
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[11:14:43] xa4a: unicode_str.capitalize()
[11:14:45] xa4a: или как там
[11:14:51] xa4a: это, наверна, есть в туториале
[11:15:31] xa4a: !wtf tutorial
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[11:16:23] xa4a: ладно, в туториале нет, но на странице с методами строк - большими буквами написано
[11:16:28] mishok13: py_two, прочитай топик
[11:16:31] mishok13: docs.python.org
[11:16:33] mishok13: это раз
[11:16:34] xa4a: py_two: у тебя же есть ipython?
[11:16:38] mishok13: два google.com
[11:16:40] xa4a: там tag-tag
[11:16:41] xa4a: tab-tab
[11:16:59] mishok13: почему ты не пользуешься этими прекрасными сайтами?
[11:17:12] py_two: разобрался
[11:17:19] Typhon: mishok13: у него ж интернета нет! :)
[11:17:24] Typhon: только xmpp открытый
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[11:18:26] xa4a: py_two: тебе скинуть документации в файле?
[11:18:46] mishok13: и блюрей с интернетом
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[11:20:18] Typhon: если бы стэковерфлоу появился бы 10 лет назад — продавали бы диски "ВСЕ ОТВЕТЫ со СО" на митино?
[11:20:26] Typhon: *в митино
[11:20:35] Typhon: *в митине (даже так, емнип)
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[11:20:59] xa4a: Typhon: в pythonua можно просто - на петровке
[11:21:13] Typhon: ок :-)
[11:21:28] mishok13: масквичи не поймут ;)
[11:21:43] xa4a: но от печатной версии всех ответов с http://www.faqoverflow.com/ я б не отказался
[11:21:52] xa4a: медитировать на досуге
[11:22:13] xa4a: (печатать pdf не хочу)
[11:22:43] mishok13: в мягком переплете тебе распечатают за 50 коп за страницу, если не ошибаюсь
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[14:14:28] py_two: так что вы там говорили про ускоренный поиск в больших словарях ?
[14:15:06] py_two: запустил на словаре из 30mb. Уже 20 минут ковыряется
[14:15:13] py_two: что же будет на словаре из 300мб ?:)
[14:15:46] Typhon: это не словари хуёвые, а ты по ним циклами бегашь, наверняка
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[14:16:34] wiz: py_two, http://ejohn.org/blog/javascript-trie-performance-analysis/
[14:16:39] py_two: все сканируется по for xxx in dict.iteritems(): if xxx[0] == blablabla....
[14:18:17] wiz: щито?
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[14:19:21] Typhon: КО(рмен) подсказывает, что у тебя как минимум сложность O(n) будет, если ты там ещё хуже чего-нибудь не навернул. гг :D
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[14:19:46] py_two: ну типа такого и завернул
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[14:21:00] py_two: 1 цикл - сканирование списка большого, порядка 18000 элементов. Внутри этого цикла цикл dict.iteritems() внутри которого элемента списка из первого цикла с ключем из словаря
[14:21:13] py_two: как это,блин, оптимизировать ?:)
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[14:21:37] Typhon: книжки читать
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[14:21:53] py_two: Typhon: ответ неверный
[14:21:59] py_two: :)
[14:22:15] py_two: в книгах такое не разбирается
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[14:22:53] py_two: в основном там общие положения по языку питона. По крайней мере я не видел книг типа: разработка и оптимизирование емких задач на яп питон
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[14:24:39] wiz: py_two, http://www.ozon.ru/context/detail/id/2429691/
[14:25:10] py_two: wiz: интернет отрезали за неуплату. Одна жаба внешняя есть
[14:25:15] py_two: не могу никуда ходить
[14:25:28] wiz: Алгоритмы. Построение и анализ
Introduction To Algorithms
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[14:30:05] xa4a: py_two: пока ты не расскажешь понятно, что ты хочешь сделать, а будешь кидать сюда свои нелепые имплементации, мы только будем говорить, что у тебя всё неправильно
[14:30:07] xa4a: и посылать читать книжки
[14:30:10] xa4a: и подальше
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[14:32:31] py_two: у меня не примет файл жаба
[14:32:38] py_two: я дома солью книгу
[14:32:42] xa4a: так тебе и надо :P
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[14:33:02] Typhon: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7365614/Apress.Python.Algorithms.Nov.2010.pdf
[14:33:07] xa4a: нет интернета
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[14:33:39] xa4a: надо закодировать в base64 и в приват лить
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[14:34:46] Typhon: да я помню, что нет, это я ему ща кидал (под рукой больше нет ничего), и ссылку оставил, чтобы скачать мог
[14:36:26] evrial is now online
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[14:37:42] py_two: хах, вроде нашел кое-какое решение
[14:38:14] Typhon: молитву прочесть?
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[14:40:10] cutwater: утро
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[14:41:48] cutwater: а есть логи почитать что py_two хотет
[14:42:34] wiz: словари тормозят т.к. «все сканируется по for xxx in dict.iteritems(): if xxx[0] == blablabla....»
[14:43:19] cutwater: wiz: you make my day :-D
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[14:44:31] py_two: да уже нашел же решение:)
[14:44:35] py_two: ну что вы правда:)
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[14:46:38] cutwater: py_two: лучше не программируй. НИКОГДА.
[14:46:55] py_two: ок
[14:46:57] py_two: cutwater: ок
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[14:49:36] nmk: засунул в wsgi pygraphcall получилась картинка. :)
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[14:51:20] py_two: cutwater: увы кодил и буду кодить;)
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[14:51:35] cutwater: правильно. именно что кодил
[14:51:39] cutwater: кодят обезьянки
[14:51:39] py_two: да-да, я знаю, из-за таких как я программы и скрипты глючат
[14:51:48] py_two: и медленно работают
[14:51:58] py_two: и вообще я быдло тупорылое, свет таких не видовал
[14:52:03] cutwater: правильно
[14:52:05] cutwater: молодец.
[14:52:15] cutwater: py_two: а теперь в армию
[14:52:28] py_two: поздно, в армию не принимают
[14:52:39] cutwater: а ты попросись настойчиво
[14:52:39] py_two: срок годности у меня истек для армии
[14:53:23] deepwalker: py_two, фейковое самоуничижение не заменяет чтения
[14:53:39] deepwalker: а инет это блин отмазка
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[14:53:49] deepwalker: у меня компа до окончания института не было
[14:54:09] deepwalker: и как то справился
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[14:54:37] py_two: >ping ya.ru
При проверке связи не удалось обнаружить узел ya.ru. Проверьте имя узла и повтор
ите попытку.
[14:55:03] deepwalker: и что это должно доказать?
[14:55:19] deepwalker: что ты тут тусуешь херову тонну времени, и до сих пор не слил себе доку?
[14:55:35] cutwater: deepwalker: хорошо сказал.
[14:55:37] deepwalker: хотя каждый раз тебя очень просят ее почитать
[14:55:59] cutwater: вот поэтому язабан если чо
[14:56:11] py_two: да ладно, я тут озвучил вопросов 50-70 от силы за все время, когда тут сижу
[14:56:20] deepwalker: и все они были в той самой доке
[14:56:23] py_two: а сам разрулил по практике вопросов 2-3к
[14:56:26] deepwalker: примерно у начала
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[14:56:59] py_two: deepwalker: ладно, не сердись
[14:57:12] cutwater: py_two: хм... а я за те несколько лет когда общаюсь тут озвучил вопросов максимум 10 от силы
[14:57:23] deepwalker: я не люблю, когда начинается "да я дубина", ну фу же
[14:57:25] cutwater: py_two: да как-то не заметно
[14:57:27] py_two: мне просто очень нужно было написать скрипт. Я когда его начал писать - думал будет проще, а оказалось много подводных камней в реализации
[14:57:43] cutwater: py_two: потому что прежде чем писать обычно люди читают и думают
[14:57:55] cutwater: вот высрать задень 2-3к строк кода это да... зашибись
[14:57:58] py_two: cutwater: вах какие громкие слова, честное слово
[14:58:00] cutwater: а написать 10 которые войдут в релиз...
[14:58:02] py_two: не входите в раш!
[14:58:06] deepwalker: cutwater, ну спокойно, спокойно : )
[14:58:11] py_two: а то ща умничать будете пол часа
[14:58:14] deepwalker: он уже все написал : )
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[15:00:37] wiz: не ходите в раш, ходите в 15-пул
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[15:02:31] cutwater: а вот я щас задам свой вопрос глупый
[15:02:35] cutwater: как тестировать REST API ?
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[15:03:54] Typhon: курлом? %)
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[15:04:55] cutwater: я про юнит тесты вообще
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[15:05:13] cutwater: есть мнение что тут вообще юнит тестами невозможно протестировать, только интеграционное тестирование
[15:05:26] cutwater: и если честно тут уменя epic fail мозга возникает на этом месте
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[15:12:02] py_two: поаккуратней нужно быть с выражениями. Я могу на себя такое говорить, а Вы - нет
[15:12:21] bobry: опять разборки?
[15:12:30] bobry: pythonua@cjr слишком предсказуем :)
[15:13:37] py_two: bobry: я конечно долбоеб, но это не повод меня долбоебом обзывать
[15:13:41] Typhon: можно ещё как сделать — вот у тебя есть тонкая хуита, которая урлы диспатчит — она дёргает функции, можно предположить, что она работает безупречно, и тестировать функции, например, хотя можно и это фигню, которая диспатчит как-нибудь застабить/замокать, наверное
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[15:15:49] py_two: bobry: мне чем раньше irc нравилась. Набежит куча дебилов-малолеток московских и давай спрашивать вопросы мегатоннами. Все скрипели зубами и хелпали. Тут же задашь вопросов, которые для бегинерса вполне адекватные и тут начинают поливать грязью:)
[15:16:29] py_two: я сам про себя всё прекрасно знаю. Кто я и что я
[15:16:32] bobry: py_two, я думаю проблема в форме, которую ты выбираешь
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[15:16:57] py_two: bobry: проблема в том, что я не могу скрипты написанные вываливать на пастебин
[15:17:24] cutwater: а иногда проблема бывает в ДНК
[15:17:27] py_two: приходится обьяснять на пальцах и я понимаю что на пальцах обьяснить все не получится и с другой стороны неизбежно возникнет вакуум
[15:17:31] cutwater: <не_вброс>
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[15:19:53] py_two: судите дело, а личность - что Вам до нее ? В.Даль
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[15:21:43] cutwater: /me таки за расовые чистки.
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[15:21:52] py_two: уберите от меня cutwater. Он залез в приват и пытается меня спровоцировать на длиннющее доказательство того, что я не долбоеб:)
[15:21:54] cutwater is now online
[15:22:10] cutwater: /me констатирует факт.
[15:22:36] py_two: cutwater: мало как твой мозг сформировался и какие он факты формирует
[15:22:39] mishok13: py_two, я думаю большую часть канала абсолютно не волнует что у тебя в привате происходит
[15:22:50] cutwater: /me за бан если чо
[15:23:16] cutwater: давно уже пора
[15:23:24] py_two: слушай заткнись уже
[15:23:29] py_two: как баба, чесслово
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[15:23:58] mishok13: я не знаю чем тебе нравилось ирц и всё такое, но если ты не поленишься и зайдешь на freenode и начнешь задавать вопросы, которые закрыты *официальным туториалом*, то никто тебе помогать не будет
[15:24:10] mishok13: ни на #python, ни на #ocaml, ни на #haskell
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[15:24:44] mishok13: потому что если ты не потрудился потратить 10-15 часов на чтение доступного материала, то никто не будет тратить свои 30-40 минут на обьяснение истин
[15:25:23] py_two: mishok13: ладно, не будем ругаться. Вы мне помогали, за что большое спасибо и низкий поклон
[15:25:43] py_two: все остальное - детали:)
[15:26:22] py_two: тем более я у вас ненадолго
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[15:26:37] cutwater: очень на это расчитываем
[15:26:52] py_two: cutwater: я тебя тоже очень сильно люблю
[15:27:11] cutwater: ээ.... ШТО
[15:27:42] py_two: - парировал py_two
[15:28:07] cutwater: ладно давайте поговорим о чем нибудь более практичном. например по юнит-тестированию
[15:28:30] cutwater: есть REST API вызов. обработчик делает ровно два действия. достает из базы данные.
[15:28:39] cutwater: формирует результат
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[15:28:47] cutwater: вопрос: что же здесь можно протестировать.
[15:29:18] wiz: доставание данных из базы, формирование результата
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[15:29:57] mishok13: не заебывать себе мозг и тестировать апи?
[15:29:59] mishok13: http://pythonpaste.org/webtest/
[15:30:20] cutwater: гратс. посмотрю сейчас.
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[16:30:49] py_two: как из списка сформировать монолитную строку ?
[16:31:17] py_two: всю главу про списки перечитал, не вижу ответа на этот вопрос
[16:31:41] py_two: прошу помощи:)
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[16:32:26] gigimon: еще скажи что про join там не написано
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[16:33:30] nmk: join это у стринга
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[16:33:46] nmk: или не
[16:34:00] nmk: ну да
[16:34:02] nmk: у стринга
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[16:34:35] gigimon: ну, в туториале всеравно оно есть)
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[16:36:02] bobry: py_two, и ты удивляешься что тебя тут "обижают"
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[16:40:06] py_two: ну кто ж виноват, что это написано через 10 глав в строковых методах, а не в разделе списки ?
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[16:47:03] Typhon: гг, это в факе есть
[16:47:10] Typhon: почему джойн у стринга, а не у спискпа
[16:47:11] Typhon: ;списка
[16:47:19] Typhon: фак есть в доках
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[16:48:53] nmk: стране то сварщики нужны
[16:48:55] nmk: свааарщики
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[16:57:15] py_two: gigimon: благодарю за помощь
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[16:58:41] gigimon: затроллили человека
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[16:59:35] nmk: да это просто привычка такая прочитать страницу документации и начать програмить.
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[17:02:01] gigimon: /me прочитал сначала Сюзи
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[17:49:48] _lorien: Кто знает, кого пнуть, чтобы на лурке приняли правки страницы?
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[17:50:20] _lorien: о, а там правка принялась нормально :) Тогда такой же вопрос про википедию, про страницу python :)
[17:52:02] Typhon: pep8 пеаришь?
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[17:56:30] _lorien: ага
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[18:15:17] _lorien: когда уже хром научится показывать в адресной строке иконку для rss :-/
[18:15:56] Typhon: зачем?
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[18:19:58] gigimon: это клево
[18:20:03] gigimon: _lorien: расширением, не?
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[18:20:53] _lorien: Typhon: ну например, я щас смотрел блог чувака на тумблр и не мог найти ссылку на rss, пришлось ручками из source code страницы выковыривать
[18:21:08] _lorien: да мне чё-то лень ставить расширение )
[18:21:35] Typhon: у гуглеридера букмарклет есть subscribe :)
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[20:31:42] bobry: http://mr-aleph.livejournal.com/322682.html?thread=3262074&style=mine#t3262074
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[20:47:03] xa4a: что можно почитать про сетевое программирование с нуля с картинками?
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[20:48:48] nmk: Стивенса?
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[20:49:39] nmk: Stevens_Unix_Network_Programming.djvu
[20:49:45] nmk: как-то так у меня в свалке называется
[20:50:04] nmk: могу заслать куда надо
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[20:53:41] огыешсук: +1 за зелёные книжки
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[21:08:07] py_two: xa4a: а че там читать ? Про работу с сокетами почитать да и всё
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[21:11:03] xa4a: py_two: вопрос в том, где читать, что такое сокеты
[21:12:19] py_two: xa4a: http://www.tenouk.com/cnlinuxsockettutorials.html
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[21:13:17] Typhon: xa4a, learn your some erlang %)
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[21:15:47] xa4a: я не себе. нужна база какая-то каноничная, с картинками. вроде того, что недавно тут по статистике или алгоритмам побегало
[21:16:19] xa4a: последняя ссылка - не плохая, спасибо
[21:16:24] Typhon: да там просто есть вроде про сеть, и с картинками, хотя может с ерланговской точки зрения
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[22:13:15] nmk: http://habrahabr.ru/blogs/infosecurity/116222/#habracut
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[22:13:24] nmk: хорошая статья то вроде
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[22:57:31] bobry: http://paste.in.ua/1993/
[22:57:33] bobry: wtf?
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[23:02:13] nmk: immutable?
[23:02:26] bobry: so?
[23:02:38] bobry: почему kwargs то нельзя
[23:02:42] nmk: да я уж не помню
[23:02:48] bobry: и почему вызывается native конструктор
[23:02:53] bobry: даже несмотря на то что я его не звал :)
[23:02:58] maxim.zemlyakov is now online
[23:03:20] nmk: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1936457/sub-classing-float-type-in-python-fails-to-catch-exception-in-init
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[23:03:45] bobry: ох, спасибо :)
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[23:05:22] nmk: вообще я где-то вроде другое объяснение читал
[23:05:26] nmk: но это вроде вполне ок
[23:06:50] nmk: бля
[23:07:04] nmk: как бы из результатов гугла убрать все ru.w3support.net ?
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[23:10:26] bobry: -ru.w3support.net?
[23:10:46] nmk: ну
[23:10:53] nmk: так то оно так
[23:11:02] nmk: только ж не я этим заниматься должен
[23:11:24] bobry: а кто?
[23:11:30] nmk: гугл
[23:11:36] nmk: http://leprastuff.ru/data/img/20110313/ccdce3216e83a42926f1d0e7f92490f9.jpg
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