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[00:00:55] valenistiy: NTAngel: ну я же сюда зашел, хоть и школота почти :)
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[00:02:10] Sof_com: Есть тут кто OPENERP внедрял, ковырял?
[00:02:10] valenistiy: хотя при чем тут школота - не школота, я имел ввиду хобби/работа
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[00:02:56] NTAngel: valenistiy: лично для меня программирование является лопатой для загребания денег и отдушиной, я как че-нить интересное зафигачу так аж радуюсь )))
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[00:04:38] levsha: valenistiy: программисты вообще редкость. Встретить их на канале, посвлященном какому-нибудь языку программирования, очень сложно!
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[00:06:57] Sof_com: levsha: Есть тут кто OPENERP внедрял, ковырял?
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[00:09:09] valenistiy: а вот скажите кто-нибудь, что минимально надо знать, чтобы устроиться на работу хоть куда-то. Просто хочется опыта набираться, а с чего начать не знаю.
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[00:11:49] NTAngel: valenistiy: учись самодисциплине, учись оценке задач, учись самопрезентации, учись кратко и быстро выражать свою мысль
[00:12:11] maxim.zemlyakov is now online
[00:12:29] NTAngel: как правило работодатели задалбываают чуть ли не каждую неделю "а сколько дней это будет делаться?" и ты должен сказать реальную, более менее приближенную оценку!
[00:12:59] NTAngel: самопрезентация, это суметь показать свои плюсы на собеседовании не соврав, т.е. банально хорошо себя продавать )))
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[00:13:22] NTAngel: многие работадатели думают : "если он за себя то не старается, то почему он должен стараться за нас?" )
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[00:13:32] valenistiy: найти бы их сначала, работодателей. Без диплома хрен ведь куда возьмут, а им еще чтоб возраст до 20 и стаж работы 25 лет надо. :(
[00:14:06] levsha: про диплом это страшилки какие-то
[00:14:15] valenistiy: levsha: правда?
[00:14:26] NTAngel: valenistiy: если будешь шарящим, либо уметь выполнять задачи, твой диплом нахрен никому не нужен!
[00:15:17] NTAngel: valenistiy: Тебе могут в любой момент дать задачу, в которой ты нихрена не рубишь и твоя ценность для работадателя в том, насколько быстро ты разберешься и найдешь нужные свдения чтобы ее решить!
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[00:16:52] valenistiy: NTAngel: Такой подход как раз для меня, ибо большей частью я всегда был самоучкой. То есть попробовать можно :)
[00:17:13] maxim.zemlyakov is now online
[00:17:49] NTAngel: valenistiy: а программирование по сути - самообучение! Т.к. технологии пипец как быстро появляются и если не умешь самообучаться, то нах ты никому не нужен.
[00:18:10] bobry is now online
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[00:19:26] valenistiy: А насколько сильно решает знание алгоритмов аля Дональд Кнут. Ибо трехтомник его я осилил только частями, больно заумно, и порой непонятно зачем.
[00:19:46] NTAngel: valenistiy: у меня на работе парень завершает Бауманку, диплом пишет, а пока будучи студентом "подрабатывает". Пишет ядра для CUDA ))) оптимизит код по брутфорсу и так что охренеешь! Довольно смелый, не боится браться за задачи. Так что нах никому его диплом не нужен был ) просто ему все это интересно и он поэтому с азартом херачит )
[00:21:09] NTAngel: valenistiy: Кнут? Он просто развивает башку, умение хорошо мыслить. Но лучше "влоб" сейчас, продать, получить бабло, а потом уже "саппорт" вычищать баги. Довольно часто клиентам даже 5 минут подождать не влом, лишь бы их отчет хоть как-то нафигачился )
[00:21:32] valenistiy: ну я-то тока 2 курс, и не в бауманке (плохих отзывов че-то о ней наслушался, и передумал поступать). Нас программированию вообще не учат, специальность не та.
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[00:24:17] NTAngel: valenistiy: бауманка даже во многом МГУ сильнее! от туда чаще серьезные ребята выходят. А то что не учат, это пох, есть стремление значит будешь программистом, если нет, то даже лучшие учителя хуй че сделают!
[00:24:40] valenistiy: На Кнута надо иметь просто адское терпение. Он требует концентрации внимания, недоступной обычному человеку:)
[00:25:21] NTAngel: valenistiy: ну и забей тогда на Кнута, займись чем нить полезным! Узнай че людям требуется, возьмись и сделай им эту нужду!
[00:26:40] valenistiy: А с чего лучше начать? Настрочить резюме, и тупо ждать?
[00:26:58] NTAngel: valenistiy: http://habrahabr.ru/blogs/open_source/131131/ на почитай, это вообще Экономист написал! ;))))
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[00:27:42] NTAngel: valenistiy: Делай!!! Делай че нить, набивай шишки, набивай опыт млин!
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[00:30:36] valenistiy: Это да, под лежачий камень вода не течет. Спасибо за консультацию, буду пробовать. А вдруг :)
[00:31:25] NTAngel: valenistiy: можешь к примеру изучать реальный Open-Source проект и искать баги, а если нашел делать патчи и посылать мантейнеру! Реальный опыт и народу польза!
[00:31:27] Sof_com: Да тут я смотрю даже жизни учат ;)
[00:32:20] Sof_com: В Open-Source то Да, реально опыта набираться, код чужой почитать и прочее
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[00:33:15] valenistiy: NTAngel: open-source это хорошо, сам сейчас на линуксе сижу, но все же в нашем жестком мире без денег жить нельзя.
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[00:34:02] valenistiy: для обучения я свой проект сейчас пилю
[00:34:07] levsha: valenistiy: ты не поверишь! На опенсорсе тоже можно зарабатывать
[00:34:28] levsha: valenistiy: только NTAngel не говори - он не верит и всё обсфуркаторы пилит ;)
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[00:35:03] valenistiy: levsha: я в курсе, но для этого надо быть Google, Inc
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[00:35:34] levsha: кстати на таком опенсорсе как линукс, меньше шансов заработать: мы сейчас начинаем из проекта выпиливать нахрен весь gpl. При этом bsd/apache остаётся
[00:35:46] levsha: valenistiy: нет, не надо. Похоже не в курсе
[00:35:49] Sof_com: valenistiy: Да нет, кроме Гугла в ОпенСорсе много для кого есть много денег
[00:37:19] Sof_com: levsha: Из какого проекта? Из своего какого-то или ...?
[00:37:21] valenistiy: levsha: ну оперсорс я так понимаю на техподдержке, рекламе и прочем держится, или нет?
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[00:37:35] Sof_com: valenistiy: и на этом то же
[00:38:10] Sof_com: valenistiy: любой софт держится на задачах :)
[00:38:23] levsha: valenistiy: есть много вариантов
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[00:38:31] levsha: Sof_com: из своего. Фирмы
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[00:38:47] valenistiy: а какие еще, например?
[00:38:58] levsha: valenistiy: продажа сервиса, например
[00:39:16] valenistiy: техподдержка?
[00:39:22] NTAngel: valenistiy: Когда-то, давным давно, в стародавний 2007-й год я работал на ТЭЦ, это энерго генерирующая станция и была у нас там чудо-прога SCADA ))) Так вот это дерьмище работало на Linux , стоило 2000 уе. и отказываалось работать под VMware . Мы так и не "полечили" ее ;) ибо никто линуха не знал )
[00:39:24] levsha: valenistiy: нет, продажа сервиса
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[00:39:50] levsha: valenistiy: собственно практически всё, кроме продажи коробочных продуктов, прекрасно может быть на опенсорсе
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[00:42:43] valenistiy: а вообще, что понимать под опенсорсом? Просто открытые сорцы? Или всякие свободы в духе GPL?
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[00:43:10] levsha: valenistiy: что такое "Просто открытые сорцы"?
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[00:43:29] levsha: valenistiy: gpl, кстати, достаточно сильно ограничивающая лицензия. Особенно v3
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[00:43:49] valenistiy: ну gpl ограничивает закрытие проекта :)
[00:44:11] valenistiy: а 3-я версия запрещает тивоизацию, насколько я помню
[00:44:36] levsha: в результате по факту в коммерческих проектах очень часто gpl код идёт стройными рядами нафиг с проекта
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[00:45:32] valenistiy: Программа ведь может поставляться в исходных кодах, то есть с возможностью допиливания под себя, но при этом без прав на распространение. На этом строится бизнес?
[00:46:53] NTAngel: valenistiy: Нет не совсем на этом.
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[00:48:21] NTAngel: На многом чем. К примеру конторам нужно чтобы их железо покупали, но юзеры просто железо покупать не буду им надо чтобы там было "мясо", а сами они его писать не умеют! Что делается тогда? 1) нанять штат программеров и сделать "мясо" 2) Можно "мясо" сделать совместо с кем-нить . Это как возможный вариант
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[00:49:29] valenistiy: ну а при чем тут open source?
[00:49:31] Sof_com: levsha: А как AGPL лицензии? То же ничего хорошего?
[00:50:29] levsha: valenistiy: твоё "Программа ведь может поставляться в исходных кодах" опять указывает на то, что ты усиленно цепляешься за только один из вариантов заработка: продажа коробочных продуктов
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[00:51:31] NTAngel: valenistiy: НУ или есть проект чего-нибудь, это что-нибудь многим надо! А это "что-нибудь" развивается на там нужны плюшки, которые добровольцы делать не хотят, им они скучные, а сделать надо! Тогда конторы которым эти плюшки нужны жертвуют в фонд проекта и уж из этого фонта проект выделяет средства на реализацию этих плюшек
[00:52:29] valenistiy: так разработчики браузеров зарабатывают, да?
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[00:52:36] NTAngel: valenistiy: да )
[00:52:40] NTAngel: Причем не плохо )
[00:52:48] levsha: Sof_com: agpl тем более нафиг. Там даже с продажей сервиса всё плохо
[00:53:30] Sof_com: levsha: Т.е. допустим Веб-сервис на agpl v3 не построить?
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[00:56:24] valenistiy: Интересно, кто сделал такой перевод в psi? <nick> заходит как участник и член XD
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