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[01:38:29] Yanzay: hey что за гробовое молчание?
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[01:39:08] k_s: предлагай тему)
[01:41:38] Yanzay: кто-нибудь что-то слышал про питон в школах/институтах? вроде как лёгкий для изучения язык, а у нас я нигде его не встречал по учебным заведениям (интересуюсь как возможно будущий учитель информатики)
[01:42:03] k_s: даешь самостоятельное создание школы
[01:42:05] k_s: по питону
[01:42:19] k_s: питон действительно легче
[01:42:33] k_s: но в россии легких путей не ищут
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[01:42:54] Yanzay: я из Украины, у нас ещё хуже
[01:43:00] k_s: а
[01:43:10] k_s: ну проще самому создать школу - спрос есть
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[01:43:16] k_s: учителей нет
[01:43:31] Yanzay: как можно "создать" школу? о_О
[01:43:43] k_s: такчто клепаем простенький сайт на Django, ведем скайп-конференции, где обучаем азам Python
[01:43:52] Yanzay: а, в этом смысле =)
[01:43:55] k_s: легко - было бы желание
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[01:44:19] k_s: если с такой позиции подходить к учебному процессу то результаты не заставят себя ждать)
[01:44:37] Yanzay: осталось найти время и деньги
[01:44:40] k_s: а если учить отдельно людей которым ниче не надо - будет скучно и вам и ученикам
[01:44:41] k_s: на что?
[01:44:55] k_s: делаются платные занятия
[01:45:05] k_s: курс 500 рублей с ученика, например
[01:45:16] k_s: несколько групп
[01:45:21] k_s: набирается- и вперед
[01:46:00] Yanzay: идея хороша
[01:46:19] k_s: лучше чем учить в школе бестолочей которым ниче не надо )
[01:46:23] Tony: Yanzay, питон имеет несколько характерных черт которые не совсем подходят для первого языка и особенно в качестве изучения в школе
[01:46:33] k_s: Tony: каких например?
[01:46:38] Yanzay: почему?
[01:46:40] Tony: отступы и дактайпинг
[01:46:47] k_s: дактайпинг - wtf ?
[01:46:53] Tony: duck typing
[01:46:53] Yanzay: утиная типизация
[01:47:00] k_s: автоматическая всмысле ?
[01:47:05] Tony: утиная епта
[01:47:09] Tony: питонист бля )))
[01:47:10] k_s: я хз че это
[01:47:24] k_s: из меня питонист...
[01:47:24] Yanzay: если выглядит как утка и крякает как утка значит это утка
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[01:47:40] k_s: поясни что значит duck typing на более простом примере )
[01:47:50] k_s: и почему это плохо школьникам
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[01:48:22] Tony: k_s, ты второй день на питоне?)
[01:48:28] Yanzay: границы использования объекта определяются его текущим набором методов и свойств, в противоположность наследованию от определённого класса. То есть считается, что объект реализует интерфейс, если он содержит все методы этого интерфейса, независимо от связей в иерархии наследования и принадлежности к какому-либо конкретному классу
[01:48:36] Yanzay: из википедии*
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[01:48:55] k_s: Tony: вот ты говоришь ты крут - докажи, харошь пальцы гнуть
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[01:49:13] Tony: я не говорю что я крут, просто ты тупишь )
[01:49:24] k_s: мдяя
[01:49:32] Tony: вон человек зашел в википедию и посмотрел даже скопипастил )
[01:49:45] Tony: школьникам плохо потому что в других языках это не распространено
[01:49:59] Yanzay: просто недавно как раз в википедии про утиную типизацию читал =)
[01:50:31] k_s: Tony: вот где я действительно туплю, так это здесь - http://python.su/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=80083#p80083
[01:50:43] Yanzay: почему не распространено? сисярп например
[01:51:34] Tony: там строгая типизация не то совсем ведь
[01:51:53] Yanzay: тип dynamic слышал?
[01:52:12] Tony: я на C# в последний раз писал 6 лет назад
[01:52:26] Tony: и тогда это не было реализовано на уровне языка как в python
[01:52:28] k_s: и в получившемся результате как здесь - http://paste.in.ua/3414/
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[01:53:31] k_s: есть у кого идеи как сделать так чтоб файл предназначенный на upload полностью уходил в гугл и был им распознан, так чтоб в значении hypotheses были распознанные фразы?
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[01:54:12] k_s: проблема такая - есть файл "файл.flac", который я отправляю гуглу.. он по идее должен выдавать в json'е фразу которая была распознана в этом файле
[01:54:20] k_s: а возвращает пустой список
[01:54:24] k_s: сабака
[01:54:51] Tony: здесь надо человека который понимает то апи которое ты ковыряешь,а не python я думаю.
[01:55:01] k_s: там нет апи, в том то и дело )
[01:55:15] k_s: просто представляюсь как chrome браузер и скармливаю ему файл
[01:55:26] k_s: он мне в ответ должен отдать строку распознанную
[01:55:39] k_s: в гугле это выглядит что js внутри страницы эту строку пихает в строку поиска
[01:55:49] k_s: я же просто json ловлю в response
[01:56:00] k_s: так вот фишка в том, что он скармливается не так как-то этот файл
[01:56:08] Yanzay: может он догадался что ты его обманываешь?
[01:56:13] k_s: каким образом?
[01:56:25] Yanzay: это ж гугл, он всё знает
[01:56:32] k_s: )
[01:56:35] k_s: нуну...
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[02:01:07] Tony: мне вот кажется, как первый язык практически идеален bash
[02:01:14] k_s: Oo
[02:01:15] Yanzay: а на английском пробовал отправлять
[02:01:17] Yanzay: ?
[02:01:19] k_s: да
[02:01:25] Tony: кроме того, не просто язык чтобы потренироваться, а еще и полезен
[02:01:34] k_s: говорю ему i want to eat - он мне переводит как mmm mmmm mmmmm
[02:01:35] k_s: ))
[02:01:35] Tony: при том достаточно прост. под веной только проблемы конечно
[02:01:46] k_s: а питон бесполезен?)
[02:01:49] Yanzay: дык питон тоже полезен, ничего себе сравнение
[02:02:10] Yanzay: где потом баш применишь? тока если в админы пойдешь
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[02:02:55] Tony: ну не только админы ведь. куча всяких систем сборок, всяких утилит автоматизации дополнительных
[02:03:09] Tony: но кроме баша, что такого универсального что может понадобиться почти каждому?
[02:03:17] Tony: javascript? :)
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[02:03:41] Tony: хотя с момента распространения node.js я стал считать javascript - ересью
[02:03:49] k_s: почему ?
[02:04:15] k_s: node.js его заменяет ?)
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[02:04:46] Tony: нет node.js это javascript
[02:04:58] Tony: и я считаю что javascript очень хуевый выбор для серверного ПО
[02:05:43] k_s: а
[02:05:50] k_s: да, наверно
[02:06:36] Yanzay: питон может понадобиться почти каждому, в том числе и админу
[02:06:47] Yanzay: и физику-теоретику
[02:06:56] Yanzay: и веб-девелоперу
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[02:07:17] Tony: да, но как язык для школьников, слишком много специфичностей
[02:07:29] Tony: даже не сколько утиная типизация, сколько отступы
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[02:08:23] Tony: при том мне отступы очень нравятся, но все же как первый язык не совсем заебись
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[02:09:24] Yanzay: да отступы это вообще гениальная идея, особенно для начинающих программистов!
[02:10:15] Yanzay: ты бы видел какие простыни кода выдают мои одногрупники-быдлокодеры на делфи без единого отступа, ты бы тоже так решил
[02:10:24] k_s: я не знаю.. я перепробовал начиная с того, чему меня учили в школе(Turbo Pascal), заканчивая Haskell\Scheme - питон показался мне идеальным для изучения в принципе
[02:10:57] k_s: и я искренне недоумеваю, почему учат в школах pascal'ю
[02:11:05] k_s: когда его ваще нигде почти уже не используют
[02:12:33] Yanzay: потому что учителя 10-20 лет назад учили паскаль и больше ничего не знают
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[02:13:02] Yanzay: в институтах профессора тем более
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[02:13:50] Yanzay: у меня на 1-м курсе преподавал программирование чувак, который сам говорил что не программировал уже 40 лет, вот такая у нас система образования =)
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[02:14:53] k_s: ну в России малость получше, но в целом да.. те кто знают сами учились и врядли преподаватели в универах, т.к. там платят меньше в 2-5 раз
[02:17:09] Yanzay: не понимаю твоей строчки кода size = os.path.getsize(our_file_path.strip('wav')+'flac')
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[02:17:34] k_s: ну это типо я ему говорю определить размер файла с окончанием .flac
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[02:17:46] Yanzay: правильно определяется?
[02:17:46] k_s: какая часть непонятна ?
[02:17:52] k_s: ну да, естественно
[02:18:08] k_s: метод getsize же не я писал )))
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[17:03:22] ivanovdw@jabber.ru: Привет. Подскажите пожалуста, какую либу заюзать для запуска задач по расписанию в питоне? Мне нужно создать вечно живущий Scheduler и пулять в него задачки(какой метод и через сколько секунд после добавления нужно его запустить) и + ко всему что бы две задачки не запускались одновременно, т.е. если одна задача запущенна а второй пришло время выполняться она бы ждала завершения первой задачки по типу того что есть в java.utils.concurrent
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[17:29:42] xa4a: celery* ?
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[17:50:22] ivanovdw@jabber.ru: celery заточен только под django? Или его можно применять и отдельно от web приложений?
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[17:50:43] Tony: тебе очередь нужна
[17:50:54] Tony: по сути celery просто обертка и воркер для очереди
[17:51:08] Tony: расписание многие очереди не умеют.
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[17:51:43] Tony: единственное вменяемое что я нашел это beanstalkd - оно умеет, только очень простое и не на amqp
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[18:00:00] ivanovdw@jabber.ru: Помоему и то и то слишком навороченно, требуют поднятия брокера, поддерживают востановления тасков из кеша в случаи отключения приложений. По сути у меня всегда есть однин таск, который запускается раз в час, если он видит что то то идет не так как надо, то должен поставить самого себе в очередь на запуск через 5-10 минут, при этом основное задание которое запускается каждый час должно то же остаться
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[18:00:23] xa4a: крон с лок-файлом
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[18:00:31] ivanovdw@jabber.ru: конечно наверное можно поразбираться celery но мне кажется это избыточно
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[18:02:01] ivanovdw@jabber.ru: хмм интересная мысль, но не знаю насколько это кросплатформенно
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[18:04:12] ivanovdw@jabber.ru: В джаве например есть quartz это что то типа крона но крутится он внтури jvm приложения, вот такой и бы аналог под питон был бы идеален
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[18:05:41] cutwater: ivanovdw@jabber.ru: если тебе нужен не джанго то просто забей на celery и используй тот бекенд который ты хочешь
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[18:07:45] ivanovdw@jabber.ru: Ну джанго 100% не нужен, но что можно использовать для неприрывного scheduler'a пока тоже не понятно
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[18:44:43] aries.ua: Народ, хочу локально настроить на апачи поддержку джанго, ну потренироваться и настроить локальный хостинг. Что посоветуете, что удобнее и лучше? WSGI, Fast?
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[19:02:15] gigimon: aries.ua: mod_wsgi
[19:02:26] gigimon: но лучше nginx+wsgi
[19:02:33] gigimon: или cherokee + uwsgi
[19:03:31] Tony: самое простое и очевидное в настройке это apache + mod_wsgi
[19:03:44] Tony: самая быстрая связка cherokee + uwsgi - но дебажить ее охуеть можно
[19:04:07] Tony: в nginx к сожалению по сей день wsgi over fcgi что мне не нраицца, потому выбираю меж двумя этими задачами
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[19:04:11] Tony: *технологиями бля
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[19:05:43] gigimon: Tony: на счет дебажить чероки и uwsgi соглашусь
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[19:06:30] aries.ua: ок, спасибо! :)
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[19:06:49] aries.ua: сейчас попробую настроить. Есть какие нить подводные камни?
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[19:06:59] gigimon: пути
[19:07:34] Tony: хотя nginx очень полезен в случае если запускаешь 2-4 торнады и nginx в качестве прокси для них
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[20:51:47] aries.ua is now online
[20:52:39] maxim.zemlyakov is now online
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[20:55:29] Typhon is now away
[20:56:34] bobry is now online
[20:56:37] erraen is now online
[20:56:49] aries.ua is now online
[20:57:04] tilarids is now offline
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[20:57:34] gf is now online
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[21:01:50] aries.ua is now online
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[21:26:56] aries.ua is now online
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