[00:02:41] downshft: или сразу multiprocessing ?
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[00:06:34] Tony: concurrent
[00:07:51] downshft: только в 3й ветке?
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[00:08:05] Tony: есть бэкпорт под 2 ветку в pypi
[00:08:15] downshft: ок, спс
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[00:10:43] cutwater: Tony: все таки concurrent и threading несколько разные вещи
[00:10:58] Tony: как и multiprocessing ;)
[00:11:10] cutwater: а вообще клево, спасибо.
[00:11:22] cutwater: я как раз такое искал
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[00:13:26] xa4a: http://www.lysator.liu.se/~tab/erlang/py_interface/
[00:14:02] Tony: вроде как банана раньше была на эрланг портанута
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[00:14:43] xa4a: банана?
[00:14:48] Tony: ага
[00:14:53] Tony: на чем twisted.pb основан
[00:15:38] xa4a: аэ.. /me twisted видел только мельком пару страниц мана. больше не осилил
[00:17:10] Tony: зря
[00:17:33] xa4a: ну я много слышал. почемеу зря?
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[00:18:13] Tony: зря что больше не осилил. очень интересный подход работы с потоками.
[00:18:23] Tony: правда не везде twisted годен, он относительно не быстрый
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[00:19:22] xa4a: ну как.. подход я и так знаю. а задач соответствующих не было - вот и не ковырял сам твистед
[00:19:34] Tony: ну тогда понятно
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[16:31:41] downshft: всем превед.. продолжая вчерашнюю тему о супервизорах, давайте поговорим вот о чем: есть ли смысл в таком паттерне в питоне в целом, насколько я понял реально легче будет контролировать поведение потока из самого потока а не из какого-то внешнего, чено говоря я даже не понял как вообще хоть приблизительно реализовать простенького супервизора, потому как не понял как ловить исключения из потока (в потоке-родителе)
[16:32:28] imbolc name is now away
[16:32:41] огыешсук: Только внешней программой.
[16:32:46] огыешсук: supervisord.
[16:32:52] огыешсук: это такой python-way
[16:33:06] огыешсук: Нужен программный -- чего б прямо ерланг не юзать?
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[16:33:49] огыешсук: supervisor, если что, написан на питоне
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[16:35:47] downshft: супервизор совсем не то насколько я понял
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[16:35:51] imbolc name is now xa
[16:35:59] downshft: но если из потока нельзя ловить исключения
[16:36:08] downshft: то я типа не понял зачем я питон учил?
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[16:39:54] огыешсук: надёжность уровня erlang`а по любому не светит
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[16:40:31] огыешсук: да и процессы тут небесплатные (в отличии от)
[16:42:30] imbolc name is now xa
[16:42:44] xa4a: ну йопта, запускай поток в обёртке, которая будет ловить исключения
[16:42:52] xa4a: (читай: напиши супервизор сам)
[16:43:13] downshft: можна однострочник псевдокода такой обертки, я тупой :(
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[16:44:08] xa4a: thread_exceptions = Queue(); def wrapper(f): try: f() except Exception, ex: thread_exceptions.put((threading.current_thread(), ex))
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[16:45:20] xa4a: по вкусу добавить стек трейс
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[16:54:33] downshft: спасибо
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[17:01:19] gigimon: слушайте, а очень тяжело из другой программы использовать джанговый проект?
[17:02:36] imbolc name is now xa
[17:02:37] downshft: фсмысле использовать? орм? нет конечно
[17:03:00] gigimon: почему нет?
[17:03:06] gigimon: если мне надо в тот же проект и писать
[17:03:08] gigimon: теже модели
[17:03:16] gigimon: поидее несложно
[17:03:20] gigimon: http://www.b-list.org/weblog/2007/sep/22/standalone-django-scripts/
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[17:05:54] downshft: я же гноворю нет, не сложно
[17:06:11] gigimon: аок
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[17:21:07] xa4a: а в чём проблема-то7
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[19:25:06] downshft: пацаны я не понимат, давайте еще раз http://dumpz.org/110137/ например?
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[19:31:14] downshft: кароче я осознал свою ошибку, ловить исключения надо в самом воркере, но вам не кажется что это как-то через анус???
[19:31:28] downshft: короче зря я книжки читал только голову забил лол :(
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[19:33:25] gigimon: а зачем тебе это?
[19:33:32] gigimon: эксепты в потоках
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[19:33:55] downshft: а как лучше? просто коды завершения? ну один хер, цифра или объект же
[19:34:35] gigimon: не, имею ввиду вообще зачем тебе коды завершения и т.п.
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[19:34:49] gigimon: если поток что-то делает, сложи в очередь
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[19:35:00] gigimon: результат его
[19:35:18] gigimon: да и обычно ж потоки делают на кучу задач, а не создают каждый раз на что-то
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[19:37:06] downshft: ну типа есть поток, в нем работает клиент ИМАП, он принимает почту. если все ок почта проверяется раз в 5 минут и складывается в базу, если ошибка получения письма делается перерыв на минуту и повтор, если ошибка подключения к серверу делается перерыв на 15 минут. как-то так, например. и таких потоков может быть несколько, на несколько ящиков, и у разных потоков разные перерывы, и хотелось бы чтобы всем этим рулил типа один хост-поток, решая сколько лучше потоков запустить и как себя с ними вести если исключения вылетают... понимаю что схема может немного и не вписывается и сумбурно, но в целом как-то так
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[19:37:31] downshft: такой же поток есть для смтп клиента и для самого обработчика... и как это все свернуть в одну няшную апликуху
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[19:40:12] gigimon: эм
[19:40:28] gigimon: кладешь в очередь сообщение, "ошибка такая, что мне делать?"
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[19:40:40] gigimon: обрабатываешь главным потоком, ложишь обратно ответ
[19:40:57] gigimon: я бы так делал
[19:41:07] gigimon: не надо никаких эксепшенов ловить, пересоздавать воркеры
[19:41:16] gigimon: получение и обработка почты вообще легко параллелится
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[19:41:49] gigimon: я бы выслушал более компетентных товарищей
[19:41:52] gigimon: но чет все молчат (
[19:41:55] downshft: ну вот поэтому я сюда и написал
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[19:42:22] downshft: вразуми меня... всеравно ведь клиенты почтовые мне надо в потоках запускать, тоесть их как минимум 2 ?
[19:42:54] gigimon: ну запускай хоть 100500
[19:43:00] gigimon: в инит передавая параметры коннекта
[19:43:07] gigimon: и пусть они сами делаются
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[19:43:19] downshft: ну и вот хост получает сообщение "ошибка подключения к серверу", как ему перезапустить коннект через таймаут? ложить сообщение которое он получит через время?...
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[19:43:32] gigimon: в твоей схеме, я бы реализовал потоки получения почты, потоки обработки почты (елси ты ее складываешь локально) и сообщение через очереди
[19:43:40] gigimon: а логику, сколько спать - прям в очереди
[19:44:08] xa4a: вынеси логику в конфиг файл
[19:44:11] downshft: ок, какую посмотреть очередь?
[19:44:13] gigimon: downshft: в потоке while, в котором каждые n минут проверяешь почту, получил ошибку, сменил время сна
[19:44:18] xa4a: в смысле сколько спать и какой ящик
[19:44:37] gigimon: я может конечно не совсем понимаю смысла что делать хочешь
[19:44:41] downshft: ага ага... уже теплее, ладно ок. какие очереди на будущее рекомендуете? пабсаб же тут не прокатит верно?
[19:44:51] gigimon: смотря для чего тебе очереди та
[19:44:55] downshft: gigimon: я очевидно сам не до конца понимаю но беседы полезны, да
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[19:45:07] gigimon: downshft: ну с почтой ты что делать хочешь?
[19:45:13] gigimon: просто получать и складывать локально?
[19:45:23] downshft: обрабатывать и слать дальше
[19:45:38] downshft: но это не суть это уже на монге бегает
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[19:45:49] downshft: ну тоеть тут любое хранилище за очередь покатит же
[19:45:54] gigimon: получил письмо, акинул в очередь, другой тред, который обрабатывать письма должен, забрал из очереди, обработал, положил обратно, третий тред отправил
[19:46:04] downshft: так оно у меня все и работает
[19:46:06] xa4a: downshft: ты celery уже посмотрел?
[19:46:13] downshft: только сейчас эти три треда это отдельные файлы
[19:46:15] gigimon: downshft: тогда что ты городить хочешь?
[19:46:18] downshft: бла
[19:46:23] downshft: собрать три файла в одну апликуху )
[19:46:28] gigimon: ну кхм, объедини)
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[19:46:39] gigimon: и запускай как отдельные независимые треды/потоки
[19:46:48] gigimon: процессы/потоки*
[19:47:06] downshft: вот, это-то оно и ясно, но тогда эти треды-потоки сами себя должны вести как хотят, и нет над ними главного, и если я че поменять хочу мне их надо переделывать
[19:47:22] downshft: а вот я хотел чтобы был главный тред который бы это все и решал исходя из того какие там исключения падают если чо
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[19:48:11] downshft: короче все правильно
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[19:48:15] downshft: я не того хотел билять
[19:48:17] downshft: всем спасибо
[19:48:23] gigimon: ну, сделай через сообщения
[19:48:27] gigimon: отправил - ждешь ответа
[19:48:27] xa4a: celery, йопта. зашедулил в него таск когда хочешь чтобы он запустился. селери запустил его, погонял, таск в конце в очередь же сложил результат работы, или иксепшн, если упал
[19:48:44] downshft: ну да, целери когда-то смотрел
[19:48:53] xa4a: почему перестал смотреть?
[19:49:07] downshft: пока не нужно было
[19:49:14] xa4a: смотри снова
[19:49:15] gigimon: я вот щас посмотрел, для долгих задач в джанге
[19:49:19] cutwater: извращенец
[19:49:24] downshft: не
[19:49:29] downshft: а
[19:49:34] downshft: короче
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[19:49:36] cutwater: celery конечно хорошо
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[19:49:59] xa4a: конечно
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[19:51:37] maxim.zemlyakov is now online
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[19:52:04] gigimon: cutwater: че я извращенец?
[19:52:51] cutwater: gigimon: я не тебе
[19:52:59] cutwater: я downshift за изобретение велосипедов
[19:53:11] cutwater: и постоянное стонание на тему того, а не зря ли я питон учил
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[19:54:00] gigimon: аок)
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[21:19:44] downshft: корчое целери айс и кул но возник вопрос а надо ли вообще, ведь можно все это в маленьких тредах завернуть и ту же монгу как очередь использовать...
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[21:21:05] xa4a: в селери есть крон
[21:21:52] Мозгошредер is now offline
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[21:31:51] downshft: ну я же и так могу эти таймауты выжидать, кроме того я не думаю подключился-забрал отключился, коннект наверное лучше постоянно держать.. короче полемика бл
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[21:53:00] ds.tihonov is now дома! :)
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[21:59:57] xa4a: downshft: это пока ты не начал писать - полемика
[22:00:31] xa4a: как сядешь - поймёшь, что переписываешь уже готовый велосипед
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