[00:00:53] kwis is now away
[00:01:28] bobry is now online
[00:01:55] mishok13 is now offline
[00:01:59] erraen is now online
[00:02:05] zunkree is now dnd
[00:03:42] maxim.zemlyakov is now online
[00:06:29] bobry is now online
[00:07:02] erraen is now online
[00:07:08] zunkree is now dnd
[00:08:44] maxim.zemlyakov is now online
[00:10:53] kwis is now xa
[00:11:31] bobry is now online
[00:12:03] erraen is now online
[00:12:09] zunkree is now dnd
[00:13:46] maxim.zemlyakov is now online
[00:16:33] bobry is now online
[00:17:04] erraen is now online
[00:17:11] zunkree is now dnd
[00:18:49] maxim.zemlyakov is now online
[00:21:35] bobry is now online
[00:22:05] erraen is now online
[00:22:14] zunkree is now dnd
[00:23:52] maxim.zemlyakov is now online
[00:26:38] bobry is now online
[00:27:06] erraen is now away
[00:27:06] erraen is now online
[00:27:16] zunkree is now dnd
[00:28:17] kwis is now online
[00:28:54] maxim.zemlyakov is now online
[00:30:49] py_two: Tony: как стартанем, я тебе обязательно линк скину
[00:31:40] bobry is now online
[00:31:58] maxim.zemlyakov is now offline
[00:32:09] erraen is now online
[00:32:18] zunkree is now dnd
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[00:33:21] kwis is now online
[00:34:09] Tony is now away
[00:36:43] bobry is now online
[00:37:11] erraen is now online
[00:37:21] zunkree is now dnd
[00:38:33] kwis is now away
[00:39:09] Tony is now xa
[00:40:07] gigimon is now online
[00:41:45] bobry is now online
[00:42:12] erraen is now online
[00:42:23] zunkree is now dnd
[00:45:57] cutwater is now away
[00:46:18] cutwater is now online
[00:46:47] bobry is now online
[00:47:14] erraen is now online
[00:47:24] zunkree is now dnd
[00:48:33] kwis is now xa
[00:51:48] bobry is now online
[00:52:15] erraen is now online
[00:52:27] zunkree is now dnd
[00:53:27] Tony is now online
[00:54:07] Tony: спасибо, не стоит
[00:56:49] bobry is now online
[00:57:17] erraen is now online
[00:57:29] zunkree is now dnd
[00:57:32] cutwater is now away
[01:00:42] py_two: ок:)
[01:01:52] bobry is now online
[01:02:03] kwis is now online
[01:02:19] erraen is now online
[01:02:32] zunkree is now dnd
[01:06:54] bobry is now online
[01:07:22] erraen is now online
[01:07:34] zunkree is now dnd
[01:07:51] kwis is now away
[01:10:52] Typhon is now online
[01:10:59] cutwater is now online
[01:11:23] cutwater: py_two: что за проект хоть?
[01:11:33] cutwater: Tony: ну бренное любопытство наказуемо
[01:11:45] py_two: cutwater: та ну кто ж тебе расскажет ?:)
[01:11:49] py_two: коммерческий проект
[01:11:54] cutwater: мда..
[01:12:01] Tony: серьезный бизнес хуле
[01:12:02] bobry is now online
[01:12:05] cutwater: ога
[01:12:16] Tony: на похапе в четыре руки
[01:12:25] erraen is now online
[01:12:36] cutwater: /me представил игру на пианино в 4 руки =)
[01:12:36] zunkree is now dnd
[01:14:32] py_two: обосрали так обосрали
[01:14:42] xa4a is now online
[01:14:42] xa4a is now away
[01:14:42] xa4a is now away
[01:14:43] py_two: ну да ладно, по результатам будет видно
[01:15:03] Tony: самое хуевое когда работа оценивается по "главное работает"
[01:16:59] bobry is now online
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[01:17:25] erraen is now online
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[01:27:04] bobry is now online
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[01:27:43] zunkree is now dnd
[01:32:07] bobry is now online
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[01:36:03] Typhon is now online
[01:36:06] Typhon is now online
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[01:47:13] bobry is now online
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[01:52:14] bobry is now online
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[01:59:49] Tony is now away
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[02:04:49] Tony is now xa
[02:07:20] bobry is now online
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[02:09:52] Typhon is now away
[02:12:21] bobry is now online
[02:12:45] erraen is now online
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[02:13:01] zunkree is now dnd
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[02:17:59] kwis is now online
[02:18:03] zunkree is now dnd
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[02:19:52] Typhon is now xa
[02:19:53] xa4a is now online
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[02:34:11] kwis is now online
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[02:49:19] gagarinska is now online
[02:50:10] gagarinska: вечер. подскажите с pyramid
[02:50:27] gagarinska is now online
[02:50:53] gagarinska: пытаюсь создать по туториалу приложение
[02:51:19] gagarinska: в итоге http://paste.pro/5139681
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[03:05:15] Tony is now online
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[03:09:28] livevil: hi
[03:09:47] xa4a is now online
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[03:10:36] livevil: а как можно в джанге в зависимости от того авторизован пользователь или нет выводить либо один шаблон/вызывать view либо другой?
[03:10:42] ggrn is now online
[03:12:48] bobry is now online
[03:12:48] livevil: что-то типа
match('/login', 'login') | cases(
utils.NonAuthOnly() | session.create_login(redirect_to='message') | to('auth.html'),
redirect_to('index'),
),
[03:12:54] livevil: +)
[03:13:03] livevil: или это фантастика
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[03:19:22] gigimon: livevil: request.user для кого сделан?
[03:19:26] gigimon: и поле у него is_anonymous?
[03:19:48] gigimon: а то, что ты показал чушь какая-то
[03:20:46] ggrn is now online
[03:20:57] Tony is now away
[03:21:31] xa4a is now online
[03:22:20] livevil: gigimon: это кусок урлмапа
[03:22:27] kwis is now online
[03:22:42] gigimon: какого урлмапа?
[03:22:50] bobry is now online
[03:22:56] gigimon: это попытка пхп в джанге
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[03:22:59] xa4a is now away
[03:23:09] erraen is now online
[03:23:20] gigimon: ну или ссылку на доку, где так делают
[03:23:22] livevil: ну если URI начинается на /login то есьи пользователь не авторизован вызывать метод session.create и отрендерить в auth.html
[03:23:26] livevil: иначе редирект в index
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[03:24:03] gigimon: сделай это во вьюхе епт!
[03:24:24] gigimon: URI начинается на /login
[03:24:34] gigimon: иди туториал по джанге почитай
[03:24:50] livevil: во вьюхе не прикольно
[03:25:50] ggrn is now online
[03:25:57] Tony is now xa
[03:26:38] livevil: https://github.com/riffm/utasks/blob/master/utasks/app.py
[03:27:16] gigimon: ну напиши миддлварь
[03:27:16] livevil: вот тут так можно
[03:27:23] gigimon: но где кроме вь.хи это делать енпонятно
[03:27:29] gigimon: все другие места противоречат MVC
[03:27:31] livevil: я тоже не знаю)
[03:27:41] ggrn is now offline
[03:27:52] bobry is now online
[03:28:04] livevil: у меня есть несколько страниц которые должны по разному выглядеть для разного типа пользователей
[03:28:09] livevil: да и логика разная
[03:28:11] erraen is now online
[03:28:14] livevil: я хотел бы сделать app — guest
[03:28:17] livevil: и от
[03:28:33] livevil: и отдавать в нем версию контента для гостя
[03:28:34] zunkree is now dnd
[03:28:40] ggrn is now online
[03:28:40] ggrn is now online
[03:29:07] ggrn is now offline
[03:29:21] gigimon: миддлварь напиши
[03:29:38] livevil: пример, вот есть facebook, для гостя у него одна страница а для пользователя другая
[03:29:41] livevil: заглавная
[03:29:59] gigimon: livevil: то, что ты показал, там ваще джанга та?
[03:30:04] ggrn is now online
[03:30:04] ggrn is now online
[03:30:11] gigimon: миддлварь, вьюха индексная
[03:30:18] gigimon: да куча нормальных способов
[03:30:32] livevil: во вьюхе тогда будет два кода
[03:30:42] livevil: для гостей и для авторизованных пользователей
[03:30:43] gigimon: вай?
[03:30:46] gigimon: и?
[03:30:50] livevil: а я так не хочу
[03:30:51] gigimon: у тебя и так будет 2 кода
[03:30:58] livevil: я хочу вообще на разные аппы вынести
[03:30:58] gigimon: как ни крути
[03:31:08] gigimon: знач пиши миддлварь
[03:31:09] livevil: app.guest, app.user
[03:31:14] livevil: гуглю
[03:31:20] gigimon: она выше вьюх и урлов
[03:31:25] gigimon: но это фигня как по ме
[03:31:31] xa4a is now away
[03:31:38] gigimon: како use case
[03:31:47] gigimon: для отдельной аппы у анонимов?
[03:31:48] livevil: юз кейс — разделить код
[03:31:57] livevil: чтобы проще поддерживать было
[03:32:01] gigimon: что?
[03:32:06] ggrn is now online
[03:32:14] livevil: для гостей одна логика работы сайта
[03:32:23] livevil: для авторизованных другая
[03:32:33] livevil: например гость может искать только 4 раза в день например
[03:32:36] gigimon: обычно если сайт предполагает регистраию, то либо анонимам ничего не дают, либо тоже, что и всем, но без 1 блока, который инклудится в темплейтах
[03:32:46] livevil: а вот тут нет
[03:32:51] livevil: в моей задаче не так
[03:32:55] bobry is now online
[03:33:06] livevil: у гостя вторая версия сайта получается
[03:33:13] erraen is now online
[03:33:18] livevil: с урезанным функционалом
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[03:33:37] gigimon: гм, в таком случае поддерживать 2 аппы сложнее и повторяемость кода больше будет
[03:33:38] livevil: и раставлять ифы не хочется
[03:33:45] gigimon: т.к. как ни крути, логика в ем-то будет одинаково
[03:33:50] gigimon: разности будут в мелочах
[03:33:58] gigimon: котоыре проще делать в 1 вьюхе
[03:34:03] livevil: ну да проще
[03:34:03] gigimon: где првоерть аноним или нет
[03:34:10] livevil: 100 строк кода в одной функции или 190
[03:34:12] livevil: конечно
[03:34:18] gigimon: э?
[03:34:27] livevil: придется писать index_for_guest и index_for_user и вызывать
[03:34:29] gigimon: джанга 1.3 и class based views
[03:34:30] livevil: а это уродство
[03:34:32] gigimon: специально для тебя
[03:34:39] gigimon: зачем?
[03:35:08] gigimon: делаешь def index(request): в нем if request.user.is_anonymous(): делаешь его код, елси нет, то другой
[03:35:17] gigimon: всеравно у тебя не будет 100% разного поведения для юзеров
[03:35:26] gigimon: а будут мелкие различия
[03:35:33] gigimon: то, что ты показал это мелкие отличия
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[03:36:09] xa4a is now away
[03:36:15] gigimon: а юзая джанговые классы, можно даже переопределить его поведение, вынести проверку какой юзер наверх и писать метод: get_anonym
[03:36:19] gigimon: get_authorized
[03:36:26] gigimon: и не парить мозг
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[03:37:23] bobry is now away
[03:37:37] livevil: /me не понимает почему всегда и всюду на поставленный вопрос мне отвечают — а тебе это не надо, делай так как делают все
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[03:38:17] livevil: middleware как хак будет — не красиво
[03:38:28] livevil: смотрю CBV
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[03:42:11] ggrn is now online
[03:42:37] gigimon: ты хочешь странного и ненужного
[03:42:42] gigimon: явно из мира пхп
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[03:43:17] erraen is now online
[03:43:26] gigimon: а то на что кинул ссылку, там нету джанги
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[03:43:43] livevil: да, нету
[03:43:50] livevil: но джанга же лучше всех (
[03:44:26] gigimon: ну вот и делай по ее принципам)
[03:44:26] livevil: CBV похоже на то что нужно
[03:44:34] gigimon: что есть CBV?
[03:44:35] livevil: можно управлять шаблоном и выборкой
[03:44:37] gigimon: а
[03:44:39] gigimon: ну да
[03:45:05] livevil: thnx
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[03:57:01] livevil: а кто нибудь использовал SSI nginx + django ?
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[03:59:12] gigimon: livevil: щас ночь, юзали многие
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[03:59:32] gigimon: ты вопросы задавай
[03:59:35] gigimon: а не спрашивай
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[04:49:06] zunkree is now dnd
[04:49:27] xa4a: SSI?
[04:49:31] xa4a: server-side-includes?
[04:53:32] bobry is now away
[04:53:44] erraen is now online
[04:54:07] zunkree is now dnd
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[04:54:33] xa4a is now online
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[05:04:49] kwis is now online
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[05:22:15] livevil: да
[05:22:20] livevil: который у nginx
[05:22:33] livevil: ну использовать как шаблонизатор nginx
[05:22:39] livevil: ладно это потом буду смотреть
[05:22:48] livevil: скжаите а что такое namespace и где он задается?
[05:22:57] livevil: чтобы можно было реверс строить используя : ?
[05:22:59] kwis is now away
[05:23:15] livevil: а то is not a registered namespace
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[05:30:33] livevil: solved
[05:32:59] kwis is now xa
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[05:38:59] erraen is now online
[05:39:23] livevil: xa4a: спишь?
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[08:07:30] mikhail.main is now online
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[08:19:44] erraen is now online
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[08:39:47] erraen is now online
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[08:59:44] dicos is now online
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[09:09:56] erraen is now online
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[10:16:55] dicos is now away
[10:17:54] nott is now online
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[10:20:57] zunkree is now dnd
[10:22:34] xa4a is now away
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[10:45:17] erraen is now online
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[10:50:18] erraen is now online
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[12:38:50] Сволота is now online
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[15:25:58] Darth Лис: http://www.etsy.com/listing/73121728/minecraft-creeper-knit-beanie
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[16:00:38] ggrn: ребят есть ли русские доки по pyramid? или какой нить how-to ?
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[16:35:56] webninja: сцуко не могу биллинг осилить подключение
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[16:38:49] Darth Лис: webninja, переименовывайся :D
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[16:38:58] webninja: куда?
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[16:40:49] Darth Лис: webninja, из ниндзи в лма0 %)
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[16:41:49] webninja: вообщем я пришел нагло предположив что кто-нибудь мне поможет
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[16:42:07] webninja: щаз назначу добровольцев
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[16:43:06] gigimon: все так побежали...
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[16:44:08] webninja: да
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[17:14:23] xa4a: ggrn: входит и выходит
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[17:15:01] ggrn: извиняйте. чтото летаю сегодня :(
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[17:58:23] livevil: добрый день
[17:58:43] livevil: посоветуйте базу для хранения логов с возможность делать выборки по дням
[17:58:47] bobry is now away
[17:59:18] livevil: т.е. работать не с поиском между промежутками дат
[17:59:27] livevil: а не по полному совпадению
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[18:00:00] erraen is now away
[18:00:13] livevil: хотя конечно можно сделать специально поле days_from_epoch, hours_from_epoch, minute_from_epoch и т.д.
[18:00:44] livevil: вот и чтобы база умела масштабироваться сама горизонтально
[18:00:51] livevil: RIak / Casandra ?
[18:01:04] livevil: а да, и объем терабайты
[18:01:04] xa4a: couchdb
[18:01:39] livevil: а у него какой оверхед на хранение данных?
[18:01:49] xa4a is now away
[18:01:50] xa4a is now away
[18:01:50] огыешсук: коуч же вроде теперь рассплитился?
[18:01:51] xa4a is now away
[18:01:57] livevil: и как он работате если индекс не помещается в памяти
[18:01:59] xa4a is now online
[18:02:11] огыешсук: автор сбежал из апача и строит свою систему, с блекджеком и прочими
[18:02:30] огыешсук: а апач теперь сам достраивает то, что автор им оставил
[18:03:22] livevil: из плюсов мне надо только добавлять и удалять в базу
[18:03:24] xa4a: огыешсук: это политика. думаю, он от этого зуже не стал
[18:03:26] livevil: replace не буду делать
[18:03:35] xa4a: *хуже
[18:03:50] bobry is now away
[18:03:50] огыешсук: зато теперь думай, чего лучше брать -- коуч или коучбейз
[18:04:03] livevil: коучбейз ещё же нету
[18:04:17] огыешсук: вроде вторая версия уж на носу
[18:04:21] xa4a: livevil: думаю, оверхед там минимальный.
[18:04:23] livevil: хм
[18:04:45] xa4a: т.к. индексы ты свои сам строишь как хочешь
[18:04:52] livevil: а если индекс не помещается в память
[18:04:59] xa4a: это - хз
[18:04:59] livevil: то система будет работать?
[18:05:01] erraen is now away
[18:05:19] livevil: просто я хочу чтобы на одном тазике с рейдом было сразу под тб данных
[18:05:28] livevil: индекс там будет большой
[18:05:54] livevil: там будет больше записи чем чтения
[18:06:00] livevil: раз в тыщу
[18:06:00] Tony is now away
[18:06:09] огыешсук: уже есть Couchbase Server 2.0 Developer Preview

[18:06:09] livevil: тупо логи сохранять
[18:06:15] xa4a: ну вьюхи хранятся на диске
[18:06:52] xa4a: так что в памяти должно быть то, что нужно
[18:07:08] xa4a: то есть по мере необходимости подсасываться (предположение)
[18:07:34] xa4a: http://couchdb.apache.org/docs/overview.html, чо там
[18:08:17] livevil: т.е. надо проверять
[18:08:24] livevil: знаю что монго крайне критична к памяти
[18:08:41] gigimon: redis >_<
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[18:12:03] livevil: вообщем мне нужно datastore, с возможностью быстрого горизонтального (и вертикального) масштабирования, в котором я буду хранить терабайты журналов операций, буду генерировать отчеты по ним (средняя нагрузка по дням, неделям и месяцам), хранить буду на простых машинах с максимум 16гб оперативной памяти. в основном буду писать, чтения будет в разы меньше чем записи.
[18:12:37] livevil: gigimon: redis же вроде не файловая база
[18:12:39] xa4a: и ещё быстро и бесплатно
[18:12:42] livevil: ей нужна память
[18:12:51] gigimon: редис умеет хранить бд на винте
[18:12:53] livevil: ну прям по поводу быстроты я не говорил
[18:13:06] livevil: сотни тысяч запросов на одну ноду у меня не будет
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[18:13:20] livevil: совсем чуть чуть
[18:13:47] livevil: gigimon: ему нужно для хорошей работы чтобы данные помещались в память
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[18:13:59] livevil: у меня не будет денег на сервера с памятью больше 16гб (нищеброд да(
[18:14:15] gigimon: чувак
[18:14:26] gigimon: тогда для тебя все nosql не подходят
[18:14:27] gigimon: ага
[18:14:29] gigimon: они все юзают озу!
[18:14:33] gigimon: юзай постгрес)
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[18:44:44] : slav0nic установил(а) тему: python.su | Сначала поищи ответ на docs.python.org | Теперь поищи в google.com | Код постить в dumpz.org | Хочешь задать вопрос - просто *задай* его! | Правила написания хорошего кода: http://➡.ws/pep8 | Логи: http://logs.python.su
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[18:52:42] xa4a: нет
[18:52:45] xa4a: но говорят он ничего
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[18:53:14] xa4a: коучдб, вощем-та, тоже как map-reduce
[18:53:31] xa4a: но он тратит ресурсы на хранение, что тебе, похоже, не нужно совсем
[18:54:10] xa4a: ну у нас тут вообще тоже много логов обрабатывается. мапредьюсами всякими. самописными, правда, да
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[19:29:26] : slav0nic установил(а) тему: python.su | Сначала поищи ответ на docs.python.org | Теперь поищи в google.com | Код постить в dumpz.org | Хочешь задать вопрос - просто *задай* его! | Правила написания хорошего кода: http://➡.ws/pep8 | Логи: http://logs.python.su
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[19:31:05] livevil: xa4a: а в чем храните?
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[20:10:43] xa4a: в файлах, но э..
[20:10:48] xa4a: в распределённой ФС
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[20:20:18] livevil: в какой?
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[20:49:05] gigimon: livevil: bigtable (:
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[20:53:39] xa4a: livevil: самописной
[20:54:05] xa4a: типа GFS
[20:54:18] xa4a: gigimon: она хранит метаданные в bigtable, ага
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[20:55:44] livevil: в gae?
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[20:56:17] xa4a: нет
[20:58:25] ds.tihonov is now дома! :)
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[21:01:11] livevil: ты из яндекса? )
[21:01:27] xa4a: нет :)
[21:01:30] livevil: блин)
[21:01:38] livevil: тоже хочу свой велосипед сделать
[21:02:01] xa4a: livevil: но близко)
[21:02:11] livevil: мейл ру рамблер
[21:02:19] livevil: бинг
[21:02:37] livevil: я присмотрелся к elliptics
[21:03:02] livevil: он интересен,если ему допилить функционал то часть кода которая занимается шардингом уже есть считай
[21:03:48] xa4a: key-value, зачем тебе key-value-то?
[21:04:13] livevil: то что там есть — key value
[21:04:23] livevil: но я думаю использовать только сетевую часть
[21:04:42] xa4a: у хадупа есть своя фс
[21:04:44] xa4a: hdfs
[21:04:52] xa4a: вроде похожа на gfs
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[21:05:19] xa4a: в фесбуке хадупом, кстати, аналитику делают
[21:05:25] xa4a: логи парсят
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[21:22:00] livevil: да я яву не знаю
[21:22:03] livevil: и знать не особо хочу
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[21:22:14] livevil: я си, питон, луа более менее знаю
[21:22:31] xa4a: думаю, чтобы посчитать статистику по логам, особо знать не надо
[21:22:49] livevil: мне надо графики строить по аналогии с RRD
[21:23:14] livevil: время ответа в течение месяца, дня, часа
[21:23:17] livevil: года
[21:24:02] xa4a: в rrd основное - не графики строить, вощем-та
[21:24:21] xa4a: но можешь складывать данные хоть в rrd
[21:24:36] xa4a: а рисовать - хоть google charts api
[21:24:48] xa4a: я так понимаю, что основная проблема - логи перевести в циферки
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[21:26:15] livevil: да
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[21:26:31] livevil: я знаю что ррд это не графики )
[21:26:45] livevil: просто используют в основном для графиков
[21:27:04] livevil: я пока буду делать на постгресе как и задумывал и тестировать решения
[21:27:21] livevil: а то долго думаю)
[21:27:50] xa4a: true. можно простых решений несколько наделать быстро и посмотреть, может и их хватит
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[21:36:49] livevil: не нехватит точно, 30 источников дает 1555мб в год
[21:37:02] livevil: а надо 30к
[21:37:21] livevil: т.е. я не фантазирую с огромными нагрузками
[21:37:27] livevil: это не фантазии
[21:37:33] livevil: реальность (
[21:37:39] livevil: нагрузок то не будет
[21:37:44] livevil: чтение мало записей много
[21:38:03] livevil: буду советоваться с тобой)
[21:38:38] livevil: гугл chars умеет не круговые диаграмы строить а X/Y ? двухмерные ?
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[21:40:41] xa4a: http://code.google.com/apis/chart/image/docs/gallery/chart_gall.html
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[21:41:09] xa4a: 1.5T за год это большая нагрузка?
[21:42:09] livevil: для 30к сенсоров
[21:42:56] livevil: у конкурентов их под 400к)
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[21:45:48] livevil: хотя у меня 400к если будет то уже к этому несколько раз все переделаю
[21:45:58] xa4a: выходит 1 источник - 52мб в год, то есть 140кб в день. это 4гб в день на 30к источников
[21:46:09] livevil: да как-то так
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[21:46:21] livevil: сто байт в минуту
[21:46:24] livevil: где-то плюс минус
[21:46:52] xa4a: 170 мб в час
[21:47:01] xa4a: это можно одним компом обрабатывать же
[21:47:17] xa4a: в смысле индексировать
[21:48:49] xa4a: а вот выборки делать - хз как. у нас как-то выборки делаются по тысячам временных рядов довольно быстро. при том, что данных больше терабайтов. но не знаю, как тут работает
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[21:52:08] xa4a: индексируется с помощью bigtable
[21:53:01] livevil: ну откуда у меня бигтейбл то )
[21:53:12] livevil: самому написать мозгов не хватит)
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[21:56:07] xa4a: вот тут пишут: http://www.slideshare.net/sky_jackson/time-series-data-storage-in-mongodb
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[21:56:17] xa4a: пишут (в заголовке), что монга
[21:56:25] livevil: монго плохая
[21:56:32] livevil: у меня коллеги её вертели
[21:56:43] livevil: она как расширенный мемкеш )
[21:56:50] livevil: если в память не влезает
[21:56:56] livevil: то работает крайне медленно
[21:57:34] xa4a: а ты хочшеь терабайты данных, и чтобы в память влазили?
[21:57:42] livevil: чтобы на харде лежало
[21:57:53] livevil: и чтобы с харда читались
[21:58:00] xa4a: но не медленно, ок.
[21:58:07] livevil: ага
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[21:58:13] livevil: ну как не медленно
[21:58:23] livevil: с скоростью чтения харда
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[22:00:46] xa4a: из того, с чем я работал - попробовал бы коуч
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[22:02:10] livevil: да попробую
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