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[02:47:31] : slav0nic установил(а) тему: python.su | Сначала поищи ответ на docs.python.org | Теперь поищи в google.com | Код постить в dumpz.org | Хочешь задать вопрос - просто *задай* его! | Правила написания хорошего кода: http://➡.ws/pep8 | Логи: http://logs.python.su
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[12:08:28] Trec: В шаблоне можно дату сравнить как-то? {% ifequal now "d" data.created|date:"d" %} типа этого, только чтобы работало?
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[13:25:33] imbolc name: Python 3.1.3 (r313:86834, Nov 28 2010, 10:01:07)
[GCC 4.4.5] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> import django
>>> django.VERSION
(1, 5, 0, 'alpha', 0)

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[14:37:47] slav0nic: imbolc name, это в офе?
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[14:42:46] imbolc name: slav0nic, http://code.djangoproject.com/svn/django/trunk/
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[14:47:49] wiz: imbolc name, и как работает?
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[14:52:20] imbolc name: wiz, а я либы глянул и забил, например south нету, такое нашёл: http://python3wos.appspot.com/
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[15:00:02] slav0nic: imbolc name, что-то я не вижу коммита для поддержки py3
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[15:02:57] imbolc name: slav0nic, а фиг знает, а я тут увидел о поддержке в 1.5: https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/faq/install/#can-i-use-django-with-python-3
[15:03:25] gigimon: imbolc name: дык 1.5 ток начали, подождите
[15:03:41] slav0nic: imbolc name, а ты тесты запусти ;)
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[18:04:12] andreyjkee: когда dkangobb будет круче phpbb?
[18:04:19] andreyjkee: djangobb*
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[18:09:09] mishok13: никогда, будем надеяться
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[18:10:40] andreyjkee: :)
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[18:11:24] cutwater: мда... из сегодняшнего срачика в чате Python в скайпе
[18:11:38] andreyjkee: в скайпе есть чаты?
[18:11:43] cutwater: внезапно
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[18:12:29] cutwater: [3:30:45 PM EEST] Alexey Diyan: Всем привет. Меня тут только что Ваня вывел на чистую воду оказывается что я на собеседованиях людей ввожу в заблуждение. Возник вопрос, почему в Python вот такое поведение:
[3:31:33 PM EEST] Alexey Diyan: >>> s1 = "a"
>>> s2 = "a"
>>> id(s1) == id(s2)
True
>>> i1 = 1
>>> i2 = 1
>>> id(i1) == id(i1)
True
[3:32:04 PM EEST] Alexey Diyan: >>> f1 = 1.1
>>> f2 = 1.1
>>> id(f1) == id(f2)
False

[18:12:57] cutwater: Это был вопрос на собеседовании на позицию Python developer
[18:13:18] cutwater: кандидат то попался умный, ответил правильно. а вот для интервьюера это было великим открытием.
[18:13:38] cutwater: правда выяснилось это уже на разборе полетов ближе к вечеру.
[18:14:14] andreyjkee: так сравниваются же ссылки, да,
[18:14:16] andreyjkee: ?
[18:14:36] andreyjkee: хм а где в скайпе чат чет я не видел там такой возможности
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[18:14:50] cutwater: о_О
[18:14:55] cutwater: ну бывает
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[18:15:02] alexey-grom: да, я тоже хочу в срачиках поучавствовать
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[18:15:04] cutwater: про сравниваются ссылки ты почти угадал.
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[18:17:13] andreyjkee: (Hint: it's the object's memory address.) :)
[18:17:53] cutwater: andreyjkee: тебе осталось только ответить на вопрос почему id(i1) == id(i2)
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[18:19:11] cutwater: и можно сказать что лайт собеседование ты сдал
[18:19:36] andreyjkee: потому что 1 это объект
[18:19:43] cutwater: но я тут затронул эту копипасту чтобы осветить тему некорректности вопросов на собеседованиях
[18:19:43] andreyjkee: а i1 это ссылка на него
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[18:19:59] mishok13: может вы еще и про intern на собеседованиях спрашиваете?
[18:20:03] cutwater: mishok13: нет.
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[18:20:10] cutwater: это не у нас на собеседовании как раз.
[18:20:30] mishok13: мне вопрос про id кажется по меньшей мере странным, я бы рекоммендовал против таких вопросов
[18:20:31] andreyjkee: cutwater: Здесь дело в кэширующих внутренних механизмах самого интерпретатора. Для оптимизации скорости выполнения при объявлении числового или короткого строкового объекта — в кэше создаётся пара ссылка и значение. И в дальнейшем при объявлении такого же объекта — не создаётся новый объект, а используется уже созданный.
[18:20:32] Typhon is now online
[18:20:33] cutwater: а моя знакомая сегодня к ним ходила.
[18:20:36] wiz: потому что в питоне числа до скольких-то там - синглтоны.
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[18:20:48] andreyjkee: cutwater: я прошел?
[18:20:57] cutwater: andreyjkee: агась
[18:21:13] andreyjkee: :]
[18:21:35] cutwater: mishok13: просто когда собеседует экс дотнетчик на питон, ставя некорректные вопросы - это весьма забавно
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[18:22:06] mishok13: с разворота ногой в табло и уйти с собеседования
[18:22:31] cutwater: это примерно как я собеседовал пхпшника и мой коллега пытался написать задачку аля сколько будет $i = $i++ + $i++
за что был остановлен и после собеседования устроен разбор полетов что надо спрашивать у кандидатов
[18:22:56] cutwater: mishok13: хрупкой девушке не к лицу давать ногой в табло =) но твой совет я ей передам =))
[18:23:31] mishok13: ну можно не бить в табло, а просто культурно попрощаться и уйти с собеседования
[18:24:25] cutwater: кстати я обычно на собеседованиях спрашиваю чем == от is отличается и потом в каких случаях они ведут себя одинаково
[18:24:30] andreyjkee: будет $i = $i+ $i
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[18:25:00] cutwater: andreyjkee: а теперь на С++

int i = 0;
i = i++ + i++;
[18:25:17] cutwater: andreyjkee: и кстати нифига
[18:25:34] mishok13: cutwater, неплохой вопрос, в общем-то, но есть ньюанс...
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[18:25:47] cutwater: mishok13: м?
[18:26:08] mishok13: шучу, шучу, нету ньюансов, я просто анекдот вспомнил
[18:26:14] cutwater: :-D
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[18:28:31] andreyjkee: cutwater: зависит от компилятора
[18:28:58] cutwater: andreyjkee: молодец аднака. но вот про $i = $i + $i ты таки не прав.
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[18:29:15] andreyjkee: :(
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[18:32:25] andreyjkee: Последняя версия Skype с поддержкой групповых чатов - Skype 3.8
[18:32:30] andreyjkee: реальне?
[18:32:59] andreyjkee: то есть если у меня ШИНДОШС с последним скайпом я не могу подключиться к чату?
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[18:37:49] andreyjkee: 18:24:22 - cutwater: кстати я обычно на собеседованиях спрашиваю чем == от is отличается и потом в каких случаях они ведут себя одинаково => is will return True if two variables point to the same object, == if the objects referred to by the variables are equal.
[18:38:31] wiz: а про /= спрашиваешь?
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[18:45:57] mrDoctorWho.: а чем получить из слова "хрен" вот такую вещь: %F5%F0%E5%ED
[18:46:08] mrDoctorWho.: urllib.quote даёт другой результат
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[18:52:05] xa4a: mrDoctorWho.: закодировать сначала в cp1251
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[18:52:22] xa4a: а в скайпах даже линуксовых давно есть групповые чаты
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[18:52:50] mrDoctorWho.: ага, спасибо
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[19:16:48] alexey-grom: а где эти групповые чаты найти? только по корифански добавить могут в конференцию?
[19:17:40] xa4a: да
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[19:20:58] alexey-grom: блин, уж думал с умными людьми пообщаюсь, а теперь опять пить пиво с пасанами
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[19:26:35] wiz: сбацай стартап, который будет агрегировать чатики
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[19:30:23] cutwater: wiz: скайп анально огрожен же. для него бота не сваяешь
[19:30:49] wiz: расковыряли недавно новую версию
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[19:31:06] cutwater: да я слышал. но вряд ли скайп станет в ближайшее время открытым
[19:31:26] wiz: станет, когда гугль купит M$ (=
[19:31:43] wiz: а потом они его закроют^W встроят в g+
[19:31:53] cutwater: :-D
[19:31:54] mrDoctorWho.: пускай закроют мелкософт
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[19:32:10] cutwater: wiz: боюсь гугль не сможет купить мелкософт в обозримом будущем
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[19:34:49] alexey-grom: wiz, говнокодил агрегатор чатиков для сбора статы http://dumpz.org/179843/ http://dumpz.org/181042/
[19:39:07] alexey-grom: потом этим собирал http://dumpz.org/192087/
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[19:40:15] alexey-grom: только он затачивается под каждого бота отдельно
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[20:27:00] cutwater: люди, где найти в Харькове питонистов?
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[20:34:41] xa4a: ничего себе запросики
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[22:20:30] bredogen: Приветствую всех! Большая просьба помочь с выбором веб-фреймоврка. Суть такова:
Есть большой веб-проект, разбит на части фронтенда и REST веб-сервисов. Практические вся бизнес логика лежит на сервисах, на фронте только роутинг, аутентификация, представление и остылка запросов сервисам.
Именно фронт хочу написать на пайтоне. Из-за размеров проекта кода будет очень много (несмотря на то, что отсутствует основная логика), поэтому хочется подобрать гибкий фреймворк без прибитых гвоздями частей. ACL, DB и прочее не нужно, поэтому желательна возможность все это выпилить. Так же хочется построить собственную иерархию классов.
Смотрю на Pyramid, стоит ли его юзать в рабочих проектах?

Заранее благодарен.
[22:20:41] bredogen: и извиняюсь за много-буквенность (:
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[22:24:22] xa4a: django
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[22:24:31] xa4a: а, гм
[22:24:36] xa4a: почему DB,ACL не нужно?
[22:24:51] xa4a: NIH?
[22:25:23] bredogen: фронтенд общается только с веб-сервисами. на них уже авторизация по контексту, запись данные и т.д
[22:25:36] bredogen: т.е фронт получается эдакий шаблонизатор-проксировщик запросов
[22:25:52] xa4a: тогда может не django
[22:26:11] bredogen: джанга меня пугает своим гигантизмом
[22:26:13] xa4a: вон, flask хвалят
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[22:27:30] bredogen: в принципе от фреймворка мне нужны только роутинг, гибкая шаблонизация и возможность самому запилить свою иерархию классов
[22:28:02] xa4a: каких классов?
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[22:29:14] bredogen: просто немного нестандартный MVC. Model => Manager + Storage
[22:29:59] bredogen: в Storage скрыта логика обращения к веб-сервисам
[22:30:06] bredogen: люблю извращения (:
[22:31:35] bredogen: кода будет настолько дофига, что нужно обеспечить легкую смену хранилища на любой другой тип (с веб-сервисов на собственную БД, допустим)
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[23:30:02] noobik: я захожу на сайт, ввожу логин и пароль, вижу кукисы, которые он мне ставит. Как это всё повторить на питоне?
[23:30:13] noobik: захожу в админку на вордпрессе
[23:30:41] noobik: проблема именно с кукисами
[23:30:57] xa4a: может requests
[23:31:04] xa4a: у них написано: • Sessions with Cookie Persistence
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[23:33:00] noobik: xa4a: не понял
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[23:33:20] xa4a: !g python requests
[23:33:27] xa4a: библиотека
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[23:34:48] noobik: но она же просто как обертка над urllib-ами
[23:36:21] noobik: я вот снифаю запросы браузера и скрипта, почему-то кукисы разные
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[23:38:55] noobik: надо еще помедетировать
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[23:43:57] noobik: хм, referer не передается почему-то
[23:44:59] noobik: urllib2.install_opener(opener)
opener.addheaders = [('User-agent', 'Explorer')] # ok
opener.addheaders = [('Referer', 'http://www.mt.com')] # no

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[23:48:30] alexey-grom: requests удобнее на порядок. кукисы разные могут быть из-за js
[23:49:24] alexey-grom: когда авторизуешься в браузере выруби картинки и js и тогда снифай что делается и копируй
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[23:50:40] alexey-grom: а вообще попробуй grab, он за тебя даже post сформирует из формы на сайте
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[23:51:06] noobik: про граб читал, удобно
[23:51:18] noobik: надо будет попробовать
[23:51:29] alexey-grom: http://packages.python.org/grab/grab/forms.html
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