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[11:20:08] ds.tihonov is now дома! :)
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[11:20:08] MAVr is now — Уважаемые пассажиры! Убедительно просим вас не аплодировать экипажу до полной остановки самолета. Спасибо!
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[11:20:08] : slav0nic установил(а) тему: python.su | Сначала поищи ответ на docs.python.org | Теперь поищи в google.com | Код постить в dumpz.org | Хочешь задать вопрос - просто *задай* его! | Правила написания хорошего кода: http://➡.ws/pep8 | Логи: http://logs.python.su
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[11:54:21] webninja: тихо у нас в лесу
[11:54:26] webninja: только не спят дрозды
[11:55:29] aries.ua: потому что дрозды получили пиз...ы
[11:55:36] aries.ua: вот и не спят дроздыыыыы
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[11:58:30] webninja: бля чото мне фласк с алхимией стал нравится больше чем жанга со своим ормом )
[11:58:47] aries.ua: ыыы... Добро пожаловать в наши ряды!!!
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[11:58:55] aries.ua: Я тоже прусь от фласка :D
[11:59:10] aries.ua: На джангу уже не встает :D
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[11:59:53] webninja: кстати никто SublimeText не юзает?
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[12:00:09] webninja: прикольно смотрится, не хватает биндов только на клавиши как в емаксе хотябы
[12:00:59] deepwalker: редактор не может существовать без ражимов!
[12:01:18] deepwalker: ./а/е/
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[12:13:18] webninja: что еще за режимы такие?
[12:13:31] webninja: на что это вы намекаете?
[12:13:48] webninja: там кстати есть vim-mode я слышал
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[12:20:30] webninja: ну ваще по части фласка
[12:21:52] webninja: del... хотя хз даже ) выше или ниже порог входа если сравнивать с жангой
[12:22:30] webninja: я помню как заебался со статикой в жанге первое время, да и вообще с настройками. а у фласка это все гораздо прозрачнее сделано.
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[12:26:27] aries.ua: Я в джангу вьездал несколько недель. Читал доки, пробовал, экспериментировал.
[12:26:35] aries.ua: Во фласк я вьехал за пол дня
[12:26:50] aries.ua: Правда еще не до конца знаю скульалхимию
[12:26:59] aries.ua: Но в целом на фласке проще пишется
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[12:30:42] slav0nic: да ладно вам, проще
[12:30:44] slav0nic: смотря что и кому)
[12:31:06] slav0nic: первый проект врядли будет проще без наработок, ибо сторонних либ ещё меньше чем в джанге
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[12:33:54] mishok13: сторонних либ достаточно для разработки, вообще-то
[12:34:40] mishok13: есть corner-cases неприятные, к сожалению
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[12:38:40] webninja: slavOnic +1 ага.
[12:38:46] webninja: что еще за corner-cases?
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[12:41:48] mishok13: всяческие
[12:41:57] webninja: Google впервые заставил компьютерную нейросеть, имитирующую работу мозга, обучаться полностью самостоятельно
[12:42:00] mishok13: всех и не перечислишь
[12:42:01] webninja: началось
[12:42:01] slav0nic: aries.ua, въехал то ты за полдня, вопрос сколько ты потратишь чтоб написать что-то серьёзное)
[12:42:19] webninja: угу, без админки то )
[12:42:24] mishok13: slav0nic, меньше чем на джанге ок лол
[12:42:44] slav0nic: mishok13, ты вроде в вбебе не так давно В)
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[12:42:58] mishok13: я в вебе не так давно?
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[12:43:09] webninja: не так давно это сколько у вас?
[12:43:11] aries.ua: Смотря что написать?
[12:43:16] mishok13: я пишу HTTP APIs уже пятый год, я уже заебался их писать
[12:43:33] webninja: жесть ) я только 2а года программированием занимаюсь
[12:43:38] slav0nic: не ну тут фласк рулит) не спорю
[12:44:55] slav0nic: вот загуглил аля flask migration + flask thumbnail получил много велосипедов всяких разных
[12:45:04] webninja: я для себя думаю что фласк для чего-то очень небольшого или чего-то наборот крутого, где важна гибкость, какие-нибудь экзотические базы данных и т.д. а для обычных сайтах жанга со своей админкой (killer feature) решает.
[12:45:15] webninja: миграции alembic же
[12:45:16] slav0nic: ну и если углубиться по openid с ассоциацией аккаунтов и тп штатными задачами, то ...
[12:45:21] webninja: если алхимию юзать
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[12:45:43] webninja: а с тумбами да, хотел спросить а что для тумб юзать? sorl он на жангу только
[12:45:50] mishok13: а нахера тебе flask migration когда есть sqlalchemy-migrate && alembic?
[12:46:26] aries.ua: Народ, кто юзает IDE сублиме-текс?
[12:46:31] webninja: гг
[12:46:34] aries.ua: Как в ней шрифт поменять?
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[12:46:40] aries.ua: Решил попробовать
[12:46:48] webninja: хз там файл с настройками
[12:47:04] slav0nic: alembic появился по-моему меньше года назад, ну если он уже номрально справляется с задачами, то ок
[12:47:42] webninja: http://sublimetext.ru/documentation/preferences/list
[12:47:45] webninja: во глянь
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[12:48:03] webninja: алембик норм. на sqlalchemy-migrate есть автоматические миграции? я слышал что нет.
[12:48:24] mishok13: нету автоматических миграций, но это как по мне только к лучшему
[12:48:30] mishok13: они пытались прикрутить, потом забили
[12:48:48] webninja: alembic на первый взгляд даже более прост и понятен чем south. там миграции как коммиты сделаны, оч. круто.
[12:49:36] webninja: и автоматические миграции есть и даже работают )
[12:49:44] aries.ua: Ага пасиб!
[12:51:41] bobry is now online
[12:52:34] slav0nic: flask-openid вон 2й год не обновляется, как-то это всё меня смутило в своё время) когда подумывал сменить джангу на flask/pyramid, а так для мелочей штука конечно отличная (на том же GAE погонять или REST API сварганить)
[12:53:01] sakal is now online
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[12:53:07] webninja: pyramid жив?
[12:53:15] webninja: был еще TurboGears
[12:53:15] slav0nic: вроде
[12:53:27] slav0nic: тг почти мёртв, но по-моему какие-то версии выходили
[12:53:30] slav0nic: багфиксы
[12:54:02] slav0nic: cherrypy вот живо)
[12:54:07] slav0nic: и есть на 3ке
[12:54:17] mishok13: а шо, openid еще кто-то пользуется?
[12:54:19] slav0nic: но я так и не придумал зачем оно мне)
[12:54:27] mishok13: я искренне
[12:54:31] slav0nic: mishok13, не съезжай)
[12:54:58] mishok13: я не сьезжаю, мне искренне интересно
[12:55:09] mishok13: я думал уже все забили и просто OAuth предпочитают
[12:55:18] slav0nic: oauth как-то тоже не сильно пилится, хотя может там всё ок
[12:55:47] slav0nic: это я как бы намекаю на пассивность комьюнити
[12:55:56] slav0nic: хотя в джанге этого тоже хватает
[12:55:59] mishok13: ну flask-oauth мы можем выкатить за нехер срать
[12:56:09] mishok13: он у нас тут внутрях есть
[12:56:30] mishok13: а openid как стандарт три года не обновлялся, поэтому неудивительно что и библиотека не развивается
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[12:58:23] aries.ua: А как можно квлючить деревой файлов в сайдбаре для сублиме-текста?
[12:59:24] slav0nic: mishok13, сказать честно, большого на фласке ничего не писал, но когда в рассылке начинается велостроение на тему регистрации, как-то отпугивает, стандартная же задача, хотя может кто-то уже и запилили flask-registration
[13:01:46] bobry is now online
[13:02:29] webninja: хз aries.ua ) я вот скачал его только тоже.
[13:02:31] deepwalker: Flask-Login
[13:02:41] deepwalker: slav0nic, все пакеты во фласке весьма generic
[13:02:43] webninja: фласк логин!!!
[13:02:54] webninja: как это понять? generic?
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[13:03:11] deepwalker: webninja, яву знаешь?
[13:03:43] deepwalker: вот там генерики кратко характеризуют
[13:04:03] slav0nic: э разве оно не для авторизации?
[13:04:26] deepwalker: а, регистрации именно
[13:04:37] deepwalker: нет, flask-login для аутентификации :P :)
[13:04:51] webninja: яву не знаю
[13:05:33] deepwalker: ок, тогда из словаря:
-->Computers (En-Ru)
-->generic

общий, обобщенный
[13:05:37] webninja: хотел освоить, посидел, чото портировал с пятона, но она не нужна.
[13:06:25] webninja: аа понял. ну по принципу как flask-login без привязки к какому-то бэкенду.
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[13:21:14] webninja: http://svn.codehaus.org/groovy/trunk/groovy/groovy-core/src/main/org/codehaus/groovy/runtime/ArrayUtil.java
[13:21:23] webninja: это реально не? какой-то ад
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[13:24:37] slav0nic: webninja, чётко чё))
[13:25:52] webninja: Ученые из лаборатории Google X Labs представили результаты своего нового эксперимента, в ходе которого им впервые удалось повторить на примере компьютеров процесс обучения, происходящий с нейронами в человеческом мозге. 
[13:26:08] webninja: Google X Labs
[13:26:09] webninja: АДЪ
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[13:32:38] sergeek: скажите пожалуйста как в sqlite в запросе curs.execute('INSERT INTO store VALUES (?)',ls) можно было использовать на месте ls список?
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[13:33:50] webninja: кортэж вроде можно
[13:34:08] Tony: ','.join(ls)
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[13:34:36] sergeek: ну а если он произваольный длины не
[13:34:46] Tony: и?
[13:34:46] sergeek: не делать же (?) (?) (?) ...
[13:35:11] Tony: '(?) ' * len(ls) ?
[13:35:14] sergeek: там где после VALUES
[13:35:45] sergeek: ок,да
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[13:36:07] sergeek: спасибо
[13:36:08] sergeek: )
[13:36:42] Tony: вообще, думается мне тебе нужен orm
[13:37:04] sergeek: мне?
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[13:37:12] webninja: да
[13:37:51] sergeek: ок, посмотрю что это
[13:38:01] webninja: !g python ORM
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[15:15:49] singularity: pip ищет только на pypi.python.org ? А для git, svn, hg надо искать линк самому или можно както заставить pip ставить dev версии без лишних телодвижений ?
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[15:20:42] slav0nic: э может из свн гита и тп
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[15:22:04] _lorien: а зачем ставить dev версии?
[15:22:13] _lorien: чем не устраивает то, что в pypi? ХОчется новых непротестированных граблей?
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[15:23:14] mishok13: pip install -e link://to.repo
[15:23:27] mishok13: ну и вообще, pip --help, там все написано
[15:23:57] _lorien: не, он хочет чтобы магически pip install <some-shit> ему бы нашёлся репозиторий и поставился бы последний changeset
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[15:26:03] mishok13: ну это уж хуюшки
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[15:27:58] _lorien: да вообще непонятно, зачем dev-версию ставить
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[15:28:46] _lorien: иногда наоборот в requirements файле прописывают конкретные версии, на которых разрабатывается система, чтоб даже с pypi без нужды не тянуть более новые версии
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[15:30:31] mishok13: ну мы всегда четко указываем версии, потому что нету веры что обратную совместимость все поддерживают
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[15:36:41] xa4a: ну иногда может хотеться конкретная версия из git репозитория
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[15:45:59] singularity: import django
dir(django)
['VERSION', '__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', '__package__', '__path__', 'get_version']
[15:46:16] singularity: у меня чтото pip халтурит
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[15:46:57] singularity: Это после pip install django --upgrade
[15:47:19] _lorien: какой ужас
[15:47:41] singularity: А что так и должно быть?
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[15:47:57] _lorien: у меня dir(django) голых баз показывает
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[15:48:33] _lorien: а что dir(flask) показывает, лучше вообще промолчу
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[15:53:58] mrDoctorWho.: :D
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[15:56:16] xa4a: _lorien: голых баб, ты хотел сказать?
[15:56:32] _lorien: да :)
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[16:01:39] mrDoctorWho.: кстати, никто не пробовал собирать python-проги под мак? :D
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[16:03:16] mishok13: что значит "собирать"?
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[16:03:40] xa4a: в маковские application, видимо
[16:03:51] mrDoctorWho.: ну что делает cx_freeze, pyinstaller и прочие подобные
[16:04:04] mrDoctorWho.: чтобы работало без питона
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[16:04:25] xa4a: аэ..
[16:04:29] mrDoctorWho.: ну точнее за собой питон таскало
[16:04:30] xa4a: а зачем без питона?
[16:04:37] xa4a: в макоси питон же стоит по дефолту
[16:04:41] mrDoctorWho.: да?
[16:04:42] xa4a: да
[16:04:50] mrDoctorWho.: хорошо.
[16:05:25] xa4a: ∯ /usr/bin/python
Python 2.6.1 (r261:67515, Jun 24 2010, 21:47:49)
[GCC 4.2.1 (Apple Inc. build 5646)] on darwin
[16:05:44] mrDoctorWho.: понятно. Не знал.
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[16:07:37] aries.ua: Народ, а питонить на маке сложно. Мне тут мак мини дали. Сказали работать на нем. :-/
[16:07:40] aries.ua: ?
[16:07:50] xa4a: не сложнее, чем на линуксе
[16:08:04] aries.ua: Гемора с утановкой пакетов итд больше чем под линухой?
[16:08:04] xa4a: только я бы стандартный питон выкинул и поставил бы через порты
[16:08:20] xa4a: macports.org
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[16:08:22] mrDoctorWho.: кстати, а pygtk есть в маке?
[16:08:32] xa4a: mrDoctorWho.: а что гугл говорит?
[16:09:10] mrDoctorWho.: вроде есть
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[16:20:57] Typhon: xa4a: homebrew же
[16:21:04] nmk: Typhon: +1
[16:21:07] nmk: :)
[16:21:31] xa4a: да нет, порты
[16:22:21] _lorien: подскажите, на сервере работает xvfb, как мне посмотреть, что там выполняется? )
[16:22:41] xa4a: ps ax
[16:22:50] _lorien: не, картинку хочу :)
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[16:23:20] _lorien: vnc надо какой-то поднимать?
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[16:23:46] nmk: _lorien: ну. нужный display и import ?
[16:23:57] _lorien: ну можно в принципе
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[16:25:48] MAVr is now — Уважаемые пассажиры! Убедительно просим вас не аплодировать экипажу до полной остановки самолета. Спасибо!
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[16:32:26] _lorien: это
[16:32:34] _lorien: а import ждёт чтобы я указал регион
[16:32:44] _lorien: чё-то не найду в хелпе как ему сказать, шобы всё окно зафотал
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[16:34:41] nmk: -window
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[16:35:24] nmk: _lorien: ну в смысле import -window root
[16:35:51] _lorien: не (
[16:35:55] _lorien: показывает крест всё равно
[16:36:35] nmk: гм. должно пахать :)
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[16:37:51] nmk: у меня на нормальном драйвере пашет. :)
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[16:40:32] _lorien: да я вообще дома пробую на обыкновенных иксах
[16:40:44] _lorien: покажи плиз дословно строчку из консоли, которую запускаешь
[16:41:31] nmk: ну тебе надо DISPLAY=твой дисплей import -window root output.miff
[16:42:11] nmk: import -window root output.miff
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[16:43:00] _lorien: забавно
[16:43:04] _lorien: у меня крест вылазит
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[16:43:17] _lorien: ой, стоп, я не то запускал
[16:43:25] nmk: ты точно не -screen ?
[16:43:33] _lorien: твоя строка работает, да, спасибо, ща разберусь
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[16:45:40] _lorien: ха, я писал -window root после имени файла
[16:45:45] _lorien: поэтому оно глючило
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[20:09:14] mrDoctorWho.: никто не знает как реализовать drag&drop в pygtk? Не только внутри программы, а чтобы можно было, например, переносить файлы в окно программы.
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[20:30:56] xa4a: пора смотреть Google I/O keynote
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[21:45:43] mrDoctorWho.: а можно сделать как-нибудь превью изображений у gtkfilechooserdialog?
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[22:07:58] _lorien: кто-нить сидит на debian squeeze (stable)? как туда python2.7 по правильному поставить?
[22:07:58] ds.tihonov is now дома! :)
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[22:14:46] mrDoctorWho.: из сорцев собрать?)
[22:15:23] _lorien: ну как вариант можно и так
[22:15:44] _lorien: куда-нить в /opt/python засунуть
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[22:20:45] xa4a: поставить gentoo-prefix
[22:21:12] _lorien: хм
[22:21:23] _lorien: что ето за красноглазая хрень?
[22:22:29] sakal is now online
[22:24:01] xa4a: портыж
[22:24:08] xa4a: !g gentoo-prefix
[22:24:39] xa4a: а на google i/o рассказывают про project glass
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[22:25:11] blw0rm is now (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)
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[22:29:22] огыешсук: _lorien: подключаешь testing и ставишь aptitude`ом. Всё работает.
[22:29:44] _lorien: я не использую testing
[22:29:59] огыешсук: Тогда не видать тебе 2.7. Муахаха.
[22:30:04] _lorien: :)
[22:30:07] _lorien: сцуко ))
[22:30:22] _lorien: блин, этот тестинг захочет полсистемы обновить ))
[22:30:39] огыешсук: Можешь подождать, вроде как через несколько месяцев этот тестинг назначат стейблом.
[22:30:40] _lorien: в смысле тестинг то подключен
[22:30:59] огыешсук: Ну так и ставь.
[22:31:06] _lorien: вроде в порыве малодушия хотел из него что-то поставить, но потом вроде отказался
[22:31:12] _lorien: щас гляну, что он затребует
[22:31:34] _lorien: огыешсук, а скажи ещё как мне погнлядеть что творится в xvfb на сервере?
[22:31:39] _lorien: vnc какой-то ставить?
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[22:32:36] огыешсук: Никак.
[22:32:38] _lorien: http://lorien.name/static/pub/3b8232768e1707e8f5ac375d72de0a99.png жест, 27 пакетов хочет обновить (
[22:33:10] огыешсук: Как по мне, так вполне минимальненько.
[22:34:35] огыешсук: Можешь и полностью на testing перейти. У меня один из ноутбуков чисно на нём с самого начала (прошлого лета) сидит.
[22:34:43] огыешсук: *чисто
[22:36:43] огыешсук: _lorien: можешь скриншот экрана снять. -fbdir /tmp например.
[22:37:33] _lorien: я уже заснял
[22:37:35] sakal is now online
[22:37:37] _lorien: теперь хочется большего ;)
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[22:38:26] огыешсук: Снимай 25 скриншотов в секунду и клей их mencoder`ом в видеофайл.
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[22:57:36] _lorien: поставлю как я из сорцов :)
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